Cameron Wright stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about the ebbs and flows as a singer in the music industry, singing backup for Beyoncé and Mary J. Blige, their upcoming releases, and more.

Sanni Brown

Carbon Sound community interviews, we got somebody up next. Dream catchers gather round, baby. Cameron Wright is a Minneapolis genre-defying and defining artist whose journey has taken them from the Twin Cities to national stages, including performing with some of music's biggest names. I hope we can get into that today. Welcome, Cameron Wright, yay!

Cameron Wright

Thank you so much for having me.

Sanni Brown

Welcome, welcome, welcome. I'm happy for you to come in here. I just know the name; the streets been saying your name. I hear your name, and folks, yeah, they be talking. And so this is new for me too. But can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about who you are and what you be doing? Why the streets is talking about Cameron?

Cameron Wright

My name is Cameron. I'm from Minneapolis; I was raised here. I moved here in 1995 with my mother, who is a local gem to the Twin Cities, Tonia Hughes, gospel singer, theater extraordinaire. My journey began singing here immediately at five years old in 1995. My mom was in a group, and through her artistry and journey, and calling me on the stage every time they had an opportunity, I kind of cemented an identity here.

Sanni Brown

Oh, so Mama was calling you up.

Cameron Wright

Baby, at five years old, I'll never forget, "Get up here and sing, 'Yes Jesus Loves Me.'" But I wanted to, you know? So yeah, I began to develop an identity here very young, and then I started getting asked to do things by myself without my mom.

Sanni Brown

How has that shaped you, both as a person and as an artist?

Cameron Wright

It definitely eliminated fear. Well, I would say in that stage. Because then you go through puberty and blah blah. But it dissolved all fear for the time being, and it allowed me to be very, very bold in my gift.

Sanni Brown

Oh, I love that, and I love that your mom introduced that to you. I love that. I love my mom. I'm a mama's girl. So every artist has seasons, you kind of touched on that just now, where they're putting in work that nobody really sees them. What were some of these moments like for you?

Cameron Wright

Those seasons, I'll tell people all the time, jokingly, my grandfather — I also love my grandparents. My papa, my grandma, both my grandmothers. Papa used to always say, "You would sing all day to the point where you would drive us crazy." That is the season you're talking about. A lot of people feel like when you're not active, when you're not gigging, when you're not getting offers, when you're not where you want to be, when you don't have the connections — what I was doing was refining my craft. I was singing all day. I was journaling and writing poetry, which was really music. And I didn't realize at the time what I was doing was finding my sound. You know, through at the time imitation. That imitation turned to innovation. So that was what I was doing. It never felt like downtime to me because I was always singing — just all day.

Sanni Brown

I love your perspective of that. I don't want to skip past that, because I guess I want the community to really sit with that moment. Sometimes the kids are singing too much, or talking too much, playing too much. They really letting you know what's really going down in their heart. So I really love that you just expressed that like that. You had opportunities to work with incredible artists like the Beyoncé and the Mary J. Blige. Can you reflect on those experiences and walk us through how those opportunities came about?

Cameron Wright

Absolutely. So to connect it to the question before, actually, in those moments of being around the house and just like singing, and of course going from being a child to a teenager to an adult, then you have moments like, "Ok, where's the work?" But I would turn what I was doing at home into content. I would just sing something around the house and just post it on my story. And through that, I was living in L.A. at the time. Through people seeing me on social media, somebody reached out to me and said, "Hey, is it okay if I send this to —?" I can't even remember the person, but he was doing lighting for Beyoncé. That's literally what happened. I was singing in my apartment. I was singing "I Wanna Dance with Somebody." It was on my story, and somebody called me and was like, "I want to send this video to —" and then that got to her music director, and then the next thing you know, she had a private audition in Los Angeles for Coachella, which I didn't know what I was auditioning for. And I went in, and that day I got the job. But everything happened so differently. So that was in 2018. Now you fast forward to 2026, which is eight years later, where I now am semi-known — I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but I'm known enough for people to just call me. And I got a call from Mary's vocal coach, and he was like, "What you doing for the next six weeks?"

Sanni Brown

The coach called you?

Cameron Wright

Yeah, because we know each other. We came up together in L.A.; we were both doing auditions and stuff. And now, honey, he's a vocal contractor. He vocal contracts all the big tours.

Sanni Brown

I don't even know what that is.

Cameron Wright

So he finds the singers to go on tour with people, to do residencies, to do sessions for people's album. I just did a session with him for Zac Brown Band. Yeah, I'm on their new album. So he called me, and he was like, "What you doing for the next six weeks?" And I was like, I said, "Who is it for?" Cause I kinda knew, you know? And I just wanted him to say it. He was like, "I can't say. Just let me know." I said, "I'm free." Literally, I sent him a video. An hour later, he called me that night. He said, "All right you gonna get a call. They need you to come out quick." I literally flew to Vegas the next morning.

Sanni Brown

Oh my God, I love this! I love these stories! This is so inspiring. I use this show to talk to dream chasers and people who have a small little dream, and sometimes they don't think they can achieve it, because of whatever the dynamic. They may not have the support system. So I oh my God, I love your story. I love your story so much. And so that's how you got linked with Beyonce, and that's how you got linked with Mary J. Blige. What helped you keep going during periods with less creative opportunities? So it's always fun to talk about "I got linked up with Beyonce. I got linked up with Mary." But what about them down times?

Cameron Wright

Honey, you gotta really be intentional with your attention, because living in L.A. particularly, when I would have seasons of gigging with major artists or creating my own work, because I'm a recording artist myself, there's definitely times where you're not doing a thing. And there were seasons where I would feel overwhelmed with sadness or "I should be further along," but what I discovered is my creative practice to help me get back into momentum. I love documentaries. I will sit and watch a documentary and watch somebody's story, an artist. And just hearing how they push through it, or just hearing their journey, it just inspires me to be like, "Cameron, shut up. This is a part of it, and while you're doing this, do something creative." So write, sing, post —

Sanni Brown

Study your craft.

Cameron Wright

Yeah. Documentaries — I just got done watching the Earth, Wind & Fire one the other day because, again, I just came from this huge time of momentum. I was in Vegas for five weeks with Mary J . Blige, went straight into rehearsal with Kelly Rowland for a festival in Chicago, and then came right back to Minnesota. Don't have a clue what I'm doing for the next — I don't know what's next.

Sanni Brown

It seems like there'll be some downtime, no?

Cameron Wright

Yes and. So again, you got to be intentional with your attention, because sometimes you're sitting with your thoughts. When you have a routine every day, and you're rehearsing with Mary, and you getting paid real good. And then you're home and you're kind of like, "Ok, well, I got a gig in a month." That documentary put so much life in me. Just watching Maurice White and just the perseverance, and also just self-belief. Like child, I got this.

Sanni Brown

I love this. I love watching documentaries, and I'm always telling dream chasers, study the people. Listen, when I got into radio, I was getting rejected so bad. I had to start studying the process of people getting rejected. That's a part of the process. So I love that you're saying get into the documentaries because I feel like that is just as good. Your career has grown quickly over the last few years. How do you stay grounded while embracing new opportunities?

Cameron Wright

Well, this is my perspective. It's easy for me to stay grounded because there's so much more that I want to do. Even if I was where I wanted to be, I wouldn't be super inflated. But I can't have this inflated ego because my journey, to me, has just begun. You know, being with Kelly and being with Mary or whoever — that's awesome. I'm so grateful, and I really have to sit in those moments like, "Wow, God, look at this. I used to have a poster of Destiny's Child, and now I'm sitting up here in the Four Seasons in Kelly's hotel room, eating a piece of cake." But that's not the end-all, be-all. So I'm still very grounded and very focused, and I got work to do.

Sanni Brown

What projects are you most excited about right now, and what can people expect from you next?

Cameron Wright

I'm most excited about my project. So I am releasing an album. Ok, so let me just take you down memory lane. Out there, everybody who's ever followed me, I've had multiple little EPs that I've released, but I took everything down. So all y'all harassing me about putting them back up, please stop, because they're not coming back. No, I'm kidding. At some point, I'm gonna do this archive thing, probably on SoundCloud or something. But those projects probably will never be on streaming again. But there is a new project that I'm working on that does have some of that music, and I'm really excited about it, because I have not released an EP since the pandemic, literally since 2020. So I'm really excited about that. I released a single, which is kind of like a preview into what's to come.

Sanni Brown

And what's the name?

Cameron Wright

"Hot and Heavy," which is perfect for this hot and heavy summer. So yeah, I'm really, really excited. I'm working with one of my favorite — first of all, not just one of my favorite, one of my biggest influences, James Fauntleroy. Also a Taurus, so we just have so much chemistry. But when I was in L.A., there would be seasons where I was like up, up. I'm doing Coachella. I had a song placed on Star, that Lee Daniels show.

Sanni Brown

Oh, for real?

Cameron Wright

Baby, was making the coin. Baby I was up. But all artists know, there are ebbs and flows. So with that being said, I'm not acting proud and acting ashamed. There were seasons where I was working, the savings done got low, baby. I don't know what I'm gonna eat today. So during one of those seasons, I went and got a job at Barneys New York. I don't know if y'all remember Barneys; it was a department store. I worked on Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills, so I was strategic because I was like I could make good commission here, it's high-end retail, but I also could make connections with people in my industry. And one day, James Fauntleroy came in. Soon as that elevator door opened, of course nobody knew who he was, but I did.

Sanni Brown

Did you scream? Did you lose it?

Cameron Wright

I'm not starstruck either, at all. But James Fauntleroy, for me, as a writer and a singer, I walked over to him quietly while he was going through the rack. I said, "All I'm gonna say is Cocaine 80s." And that's his group, like his little underground group, and he was like, "Oh, you digging deep." So we immediately just started talking, and he shopped with me, and he gave me his number because we just immediately clicked. And I never texted him or did anything. This was back in 2019, maybe the beginning of 2020. I think a year ago, I was on a plane going from D.C. leaving a gig to L.A., and I was in one of these transition periods. I was leaving a gig, right? But it was a season where things were just kind of slow. I had just wrapped up a season of The Voice, and I had all these expectations of what the show would have done for me, and I was like, "Ok, Cameron, what do you want to do? How are you going to activate the people that you've met? How are you going to activate all your dormant gifts?" Blah blah blah blah blah. And thank God for Delta and their Wi-Fi. I was going through my phone, and I came across James's number. I said, "I'm texting him."

Sanni Brown

Ooh, I love this!

Cameron Wright

I sent him a song, "You and Me," which is a part of the project Revelations that I took down. But that song will be on the new album. It's my favorite song that I've ever written, and I sent it to James. And I actually was intentional because sonically it sounds like something that — it's in his world. I didn't know what was gonna happen. Within 10 minutes, I got a text message. It said, "Yo" with about 150 O's. And I was like, "He replied!" I'm up in the air, like, "Oh my God, ok, you gotta calm down. You on a plane." So then, get another message. He said, "Is this you singing?" And I said, "Yes." He said, "Who wrote it?" I said, "Me." He said, "I'm scheduling a meeting." I was shaking, just shaking, shaking. So I get to L.A. I'm telling my partner. I'm like, "James replied! He wants to meet." So then weeks go by, I don't hear a thing. Don't hear a thing, and I'm like, "Oh Lord Jesus, what's going on? Do I follow up?" I was like, "No, don't aggravate the man. Just trust." And my partner told me, "Let it go. Just let the universe bring it to you. Just let it be." Literally, after I accepted that, the next day his assistant reached out and he was like, "Can you come to the studio this weekend?" And from that moment on, me and James have been just good friends. Good friends, and we're working together now.

Sanni Brown

What's the name of the whole entire project?

Cameron Wright

I can't tell you the upcoming name. Stay tuned.

Sanni Brown

Ok, all right. How do we stay tuned? How do we keep up with Cameron Wright? Because based off the itinerary flight you just gave us, we don't know when we gonna see you.

Cameron Wright

I always direct people to Instagram, it's @iamcameronwright. I also have a Twitter. I just got back on Twitter a month ago because of my single “Hot and Heavy,” and I haven't tweeted a thing — or X.

Sanni Brown

It's an interesting place. Cameron, I'm so happy you came in here and shared your story. Your story, it's just what I talk about. It's what I talk about. I love the trusting what's meant for you, coming to you. That is the hardest thing about this stuff. Your vibration is gonna bring something back. Something's gonna respond. I appreciate you coming in and telling us your story, and we will definitely be keeping up.

Cameron Wright

Thank you.

Keith Baker stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about ReConnect Rondo’s work of transitioning the Rondo neighborhood’s history of pain into new possibilities for the community.

Sanni Brown

Hey y'all, we are back with another interview. You know how we say "around the way?” Well, I'm sitting with someone who actually helps design "around the way." ReConnect Rondo is a St. Paul-based organization dedicated to repairing the generational harm caused by the construction of I-94 through the historic Rondo neighborhood. Now, through storytelling, advocacy, and community-centered development, ReConnect Rondo works to restore connectivity, preserve culture, and build economic opportunity for the Black community in Rondo and beyond. And here with me, Carbon Sound family, is Executive Director of ReConnect Rondo, Keith Baker. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

Keith Baker

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Sanni Brown

I'm a fan of all you guys around the way. My mom taught me the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker, so to see y'all come in here and tell us y'all ingredients is super dope. But first of all, just for me personally, I've been hearing about ReConnect Rondo and the project to make peace with what's happened with the Rondo community. So I'm really a fan of this, and I've been following it. So first of all, I want to thank you for what you're doing. And then second of all, for those who don't know you, can you introduce yourself and your role at ReConnect Rondo?

Keith Baker

Well, I'm excited to be here with you. I'm the executive director for ReConnect Rondo, and I have a bit of a transportation background, kind of an eclectic background, but I was saying to a few folks a little bit earlier, I started in the music business. So I don't know how you make a straight line from music to now leading an effort to restore a community.

Sanni Brown

How'd you get here?

Keith Baker

Well, I'm a believer of curiosity, imagination, and knowledge. And I think the pursuit over time just introduced to a wide range of things over the course of my personal life and my professional life, certainly working in the nonprofit field, working in the public sector field, working along private sector as well. I acquired just a curiosity about how things function and how things work. And so I find my way to this project with an understanding of how knobs, tools, systems, processes, those things function in all of these various arenas. I just happen to be in a place where an opportunity surfaces to reconnect a community.

Sanni Brown

I guess it makes sense the way a musical mind is, you do question the world around you. So I can see how you found yourself in this space. For listeners who may not be familiar with Rondo's history, can you explain to us why the neighborhood remains such an important component to Black history in Minnesota, and can you help it paint the picture of what was actually lost in the Rondo community when it was divided?

Keith Baker

I mean it's a heavy subject. No doubt about it. But there's also a possibility. So when we think about 150 years, the Rondo community, the African American community, has emerged from as early as the mid 1800s, establishing their social, cultural, economic, civic, spiritual fabric, then the freeway comes through, clearly, and devastates that cohesiveness, that sense of community. Rondo's story is like 950 communities across the country, quite frankly. And when we think about the loss, what we really wanted to do is make sure we quantified the loss, so even though more than 1,000 structures — and when we say homes, 700 homes, 300 businesses were devastated along the corridor of Rondo, after again, that social, cultural, economic, civic fabric had already began to form, and to really be a full expression of what the Rondo community is. It also has an incredible history, too, because a lot of the thought leaders in the early 1800s met in Rondo, and really conceived civil rights activities, advocacy activities, and so it has a long history of contributing nationally to a larger movement. And that's why it's so significant that we pay attention to Rondo's history today.

Sanni Brown

And I'm glad you're here today, because I feel like I've only gotten a surface level understanding of, "Oh, this was a Black neighborhood, and construction went through it." To know that the early minds of the 1800s were coming up with ideas, to link up that would affect us nationally. That's why that's important. We don't want to lose that. When people hear ReConnect Rondo, what do you hope they understand about the mission right away?

Keith Baker

It's a very complicated project, but when I think about it right off the bat, is the transition from pain to possibility. When we think about reflecting on history, certainly it's an emotional lived experience that community members have been a part of. But how do we set conditions for possibilities into the future? How do we see those things happening? And so for me, it really is that transition from pain to possibility.

Sanni Brown

That's so powerful. I don't want to move past that too fast, because I think in our own lives when we look back, it's hard to get caught up in the pain, but when you look forward, it's like, "Well, how can I possibly navigate around this again?" The proposed Rondo Land Bridge, this is the project that I've heard about. It's become a major part of the conversation. Can you tell us about this, and what makes the project so significant, beyond it just being infrastructure?

Keith Baker

Let me establish this idea of connecting past, present, and future. When we talk about the past, certainly the African American community in the Rondo community today is about 30%. It's a very diverse community today.

Sanni Brown

When you say 30%, what do you mean?

Keith Baker

30% population of African Americans. 80% of the population historically in Rondo were African Americans. And so you can see a great shift, but it's important for us to be fundamentally grounded in the current state of things, but also you have a lot of new immigrants moving into the community, establishing their own sense of place, but while those things often happen, the African American experience begins to disappear, because new experiences begin to surface. So we think about establishing 21 acres of brand-new land over the freeway to connect both sides and use that as the platform for making sure that the African American experience doesn't disappear, because it reflects an African American cultural enterprise district, which was Rondo before the freeway went through.

Sanni Brown

That's so bold and so courageous, to go be like, "Nope, we're gonna put this right back." What role does music, art, and community events play in healing and reconnecting communities?

Keith Baker

As a musician myself, and you did reference art — I see this as an art project, because it's fundamentally about creating something new from something that was. So it's acknowledging what was, but it's also visualizing, again, the possibility into the future, and that's really essentially what art is. So I see this, and I've always seen this as an arts movement, but we've got to get through some of the technical pieces in order to realize what might this built environment on top of this newly created structure reflect. How does it smell? How does it look? Are all very, very important, and arts are fundamentally important to that.

Sanni Brown

Wow, so dream chasers, listen. I told you the voices from the community are coming in, and they're telling us the secrets. It just seems like such a big project, and to say it like, "It's art" or like, "It's an album," I love how the interconnectedness of process, regardless of the practice, that's dope, that's huge. I don't want to skip past that.

Keith Baker

I often think about systems, processes, tools, and resources. When people think about an art project, they've got tools, they've got a flow, they understand how they create. I think this is the same, except again, there are a lot of levers that are oftentimes invisible to community, and what we're trying to do is make sure, "No, these are the levers that actually move a creative project like a land bridge." Because you're dealing with architects, you're dealing with engineers, you're dealing with all kinds of folks who contribute to it, but you've got to set the right tone for it.

Sanni Brown

What gives you hope when you think about the future of Rondo and Black communities across the Twin Cities?

Keith Baker

Wow, that's a deep question. I think about it fundamentally — cultural preservation, economic benefits, and ultimately a way of creating this sense of cohesiveness in our common aspiration and benefit.

Sanni Brown

You just did this interview so smooth, just so smooth. I appreciate you coming in. And if we wanted to find out more about your work with ReConnect Rondo, how can we connect with you? How can we research you? How can we stan?

Keith Baker

Absolutely, reconnectrondo.com. Certainly want you to go there. We've got all of our studies that we've done from a technical approach, but also you'll get a feel for who we are. Also, our social media is really a marvelous way of clipping in.

Sanni Brown

What's that handle?

Keith Baker

reconnect_rondo.

Sanni Brown

Okay, and we could probably find that information on the website, right?

Keith Baker

There's no doubt about it.

Sanni Brown

Thank you so much, Keith Baker, for coming in, and thank you for what you're doing to preserve the Black community, Black culture, and that connectiveness, that connective tissue that keeps us together and helps our image. So, thank you again so much for pulling up.

Keith Baker

Thank you.

Nakara Forjé stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about her most recent project Healed Hoochie: Sacred Pack, her Sacred Advisory tour, and more.

Sanni Brown

All right, class, settle down, settle down. We got a new community voice in the studio. Based in Minneapolis, a rapper, songwriter, and creative, whose work explores healing, identity, sensuality, spirituality, and Black womanhood through storytelling — Carbon Sound family, let's welcome Nakara Forjé. Welcome!

Nakara Forjé

Thank you.

Sanni Brown

I'm so happy to have you in here; I have so many questions about your projects. But we gonna keep it concise. So, you have a project called Healed Hoochie, and it's like a series, and you just released [Healed Hoochie:] Sacred Pack; that's the latest in your series. I remember when you dropped the Healed Hoochie series, and now you're touring it. So, first of all, congratulations; that's super dope. And in this project, you've brought other Black artists into the fold, and you are gonna have your final show at the Icehouse in Minneapolis on July 11. I'm fanned out, so I know you, but for the folks that don't know you, can you introduce yourself and talk a bit about who Nakara Forjé is, for the people who may be discovering you for the first time?

Nakara Forjé

Yes, my name is Nakara Forjé. I am a hip-hop artist, God MC, visionary, event curator, workshop facilitator. I'm a mother, I'm a sister, I'm a community leader, and I take pride in that.

Sanni Brown

How has Minneapolis shaped you as a person, artist, and storyteller?

Nakara Forjé

Man, Minneapolis is home. I've gone a lot of places, but the older and wiser I get, I just appreciate Minneapolis, the Twin Cities, really, more and more. The Twin Cities is so diverse; it's so cultured, the nonprofit sector here and the grants that we have and just all the things that kind of make this place great — I think when we're from here, when we're experiencing it, we take it for granted, and so I'm just so grateful to be from here. I think the diversity of this place, the community that we have here, it's so fire. It's grounded me, it's molded me, it's made me the leader I am.

Sanni Brown

I love that. I love your commentary. I'm from Chicago, and so I'm an outsider, and I'm constantly talking about how the creative scene here is insane.

Nakara Forjé

It's elite.

Sanni Brown

It is elite level, and so it's really nice to hear. I think I feel like I hear negativity about Minnesota, so I love when y'all come in and y'all like, "Nah, y'all need to —"

Nakara Forjé

Be grateful.

Sanni Brown

Be grateful. I feel like I'm more like, "Y'all need to put some respect on y'all own name." Because the talent here is insane. So, again, you released Healed Hoochie: Sacred Pack in February. What does this project and the phrase "Healed Hoochie" mean to you, and especially to Black women?

Nakara Forjé

Healed Hoochie is about the duality of working on yourself and becoming the highest version of yourself, while still navigating the lowest version of yourself. I think we're constantly living in that tension, and so healed hoochie is about embracing that tension and understanding that I'm perfectly imperfect. I'm a constant work in progress, and that deserves to be celebrated.

Sanni Brown

Sheesh, I gotta pause. You said embracing the tension — ma'am, when did you get that enlightenment for that?

Nakara Forjé

I think I've always been working towards that enlightenment. So often I fought it, or I've been fearful of it, or I've been made to feel that I want too much, or I am too much. And it's like, no, actually, I deserve the most.

Sanni Brown

Such a subtle flip.

Nakara Forjé

Man, perspective is everything.

Sanni Brown

Oh my goodness.

Nakara Forjé

My daughter, shout out to Eshay, she's taught me so much about reframing, and now I'm just like, the queen of the reframe.

Sanni Brown

I do appreciate that about younger people. I think the older you get, you get more stuck in your ways, and I think when you're younger, you're like, "You know what, let me look at it this way."

Nakara Forjé

For sure.

Sanni Brown

I love that. What was the creative process behind this project? I remember the first time you dropped it, I was just like, I've never heard anything like this before, Healed Hoochie. Because you see healed and you think, you know, evolved, and then you like hoochie, and you're like, woah.

Nakara Forjé

And you know what, it's like I'm actively healing, I'm constantly healing. There are some things that I've healed, that I've grown from, that I've outgrown, but there are still some ways that I'm raggedy. And you might not see it, but I know it, and I own it. So it's about being accountable to the parts of me that are not yet healed.

Sanni Brown

Nakara, you coming in here spitting — I'm sorry. What kind of emotional, spiritual, or artistic space were you in while creating this project?

Nakara Forjé

So it's a series of projects, like you said, and they all kind of have their own flavor. And so the first one is the Rare Pack, and that's me leaning into "I'm really her." I'm owning that, and that was also the transition period of me moving to Atlanta, getting away from Minnesota, healing from some things that really tried to set out to break me. And it's like, no, I'm gonna use those things, and I'm going to let them propel me. And so the Rare Pack is just kind of owning that bravado. The Jada Pack is about the demonizing of Black women.

Sanni Brown

Please get into that.

Nakara Forjé

And so, shout out to Jada Pinkett Smith.

Sanni Brown

I was gonna say, why Jada, ma'am? Why Jada?

Nakara Forjé

Because they was on Jada head, and I think they forgot that when Jayda entered the game, Jada was that girl. Jayda didn't look like nobody, she didn't sound like nobody, her acting was elite, her aura was sought after. And when somebody makes a mistake or you don't like the way that they're moving, you forget all that they've brought to the table. And so, just being a person who's been deeply misunderstood, I felt like I wanted to present an ode to Jada Pinkett.

Sanni Brown

Your success and your growth from this series, I can tell, it's just the way that you're approaching this. You are touching on topics that I feel like are taboo, or that I feel like maybe the manosphere kind of runs with, without having a deep understanding of womanhood. And so, oh my God, thank you.

Nakara Forjé

Thank you.

Sanni Brown

So, back to this four-city tour, because obviously the girls need to hear this. I notice that you're intentionally bringing Black artists into the fold. Why is that important for this tour?

Nakara Forjé

I'm a Black woman; I take that with me everywhere that I go. That's the first thing people see; that's who God made me to be. I got to take pride in that, and so centering that in everything, but more importantly, centering God in everything. So all of the artists that I chose all have a spiritual element; they know God, and you hear it in their music. Their music is touching; it makes you feel something, and so that was really important in curating this tour.

Sanni Brown

That seems dangerous to do that now.

Nakara Forjé

That's why you gotta do it.

Sanni Brown

It seems so dangerous in that you intentionally are putting that — I tell my listeners I'm a believer, but it's such a dangerous territory, with religion and politics intersecting. How did you feel about adding that in?

Nakara Forjé

I don't feel no way about it. It's just what it is. It has to be intentional. It has to be done. That's part of the call on my life. God gave me this gift. He's the reason I rap. The Sacred Pack is about my spiritual journey, and so I'm centering that message, and that vision, and that mission with this tour.

Sanni Brown

Why is it important for this tour to feel so community-centered?

Nakara Forjé

You don't get to be a large artist without community. And so community is at the core of everything, and some of us, we have smaller or larger communities, but it's a community, nonetheless. And so I just really want to do something that makes all of us feel good, and feel seen, and feel heard. Community is at the heart of a fanbase. We want to be big artists, but you got to build community.

Sanni Brown

Your tour wraps up at Icehouse on July 11. What can we expect from the final show? Without giving away too much, obviously.

Nakara Forjé

Oh my gosh, you can expect to not leave the way you came, you can expect worship, you can expect elite lyricism, you can expect to feel God in a space. Feel God and feel community.

Sanni Brown

How has this project changed you?

Nakara Forjé

It's stretching me, it's edifying me. I'm finna cry.

Sanni Brown

Because you have a very peaceful vibe in here, and that's why I want to know, because again, I've been fanned out about you since a long time ago, and to watch you drop this project, and to see people respond to it, it speaks to the magic that I talk about in music all the time. You have a very strong aura about you, and it's pleasant, and it's strong, and it's healing, and I just want to thank you for doing this, for you dropping this series, for you embracing the tension that you obviously have felt to get to this space, because you don't get to this space without the bumps and the lumps. And so I just want to thank you for being who you are, for allowing yourself to evolve in front of us the way you have, and then for providing us a product. Because you could have just twirled away into Healed Hoochie heaven, and you would have still had this vibe and this peace about you, but the fact that you was like, "Nah, let me come back and tell y'all what I learned."

Nakara Forjé

Yeah, you don't get to this peace without the turmoil, and so part of my assignment is to share the journey of how you get there. I still wrestle with it. I had a hell of a morning. I got a six-year-old who think he know everything, and so I'm in constant tension and turmoil. But I choose to be well, and that's just me using my free will in the best way I know how by making that choice to be well. So, thank you, because my aura has always been strong, but it hasn't always been peaceful.

Sanni Brown

Oh, wow.

Nakara Forjé

And so that's the journey.

Sanni Brown

You did done some work, I can feel it.

Nakara Forjé

Thank you.

Sanni Brown

Well thank you, Nakara. Thank you so much for coming in. And shout out to the babies, because the babies help us stretch too.

Nakara Forjé

Yes, absolutely. He raising me, so shout out to Carter.

Jamar Diggs stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about community building through basketball and what to expect at this summer’s Twin Cities Pro-Am.

Sanni Brown

Woo, dream chasers! I got somebody here for you today. The Twin Cities Pro-Am is a Minnesota summer hoops destination. It brings together professional athletes, locals, college players, and the community through competition. The Pro-Am has grown into a gathering space that celebrates community through basketball. And here to talk about the program is Jamar Diggs. Welcome, yay!

Jamar Diggs

Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

Sanni Brown

First of all, thank you for what you do in the community. I love highlighting anybody who is building up the community, inspiring the next generation. So, first of all, thank you.

Jamar Diggs

I appreciate it.

Sanni Brown

Can you introduce yourself to the audience that doesn't know about you and talk a little bit about your role with the Twin Cities Pro-Am?

Jamar Diggs

My name is Jamar Diggs. Grew up here in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Went to high school right in downtown Minneapolis, DeLaSalle High School. With school and basketball, my career took off, went to go play Division I college basketball, ended up playing professionally in Europe. So I've been playing professional basketball in Europe for the last 15 years. That's a little story about me, just grew up here, always wanted to find a way to make an impact in what I knew, and sports was kind of my thing. So, when I would come back home in the summers, I wanted to create something — selfishly for me and my friends, a place to play. And then when I started to do that — there's a track record of similar leagues and similar Pro-Ams in other cities, and there's also one here that I played in when I was younger, so I wanted to recreate that, because it was gone. I have somewhat of a business acumen, and I wanted to use some of my skill set and some of my relationships, and I said, "Well, let me start there." So I just kind of wanted to start small and just have a place for people to play basketball, but then I realized it could be a lot bigger than that, so I wanted to just involve people in the community and find a way I can tie it all together and kind of take what my predecessors, what their leagues have done, and take it to my version of it or a different level. And that's kind of what I did with that.

Sanni Brown

What makes your vision for your version of Pro-Am different from the other Pro-Ams?

Jamar Diggs

I think first I want to give a shout out to the guy who kind of took me under his wing, his name was Rene Pulley, he was kind of a basketball legend here in the Twin Cities, St. Paul area, and he had something called the Howard Pulley Pro-Am, and I played in that, participated in that as a player, as a high school guy, and for multiple reasons that fell out, and I just said, "Well, pass the torch to me, and I can take that on." I feel like the basketball community is extremely strong in Minnesota, as you see a lot of people, younger guys making it to the NBA and all that, and sometimes we don't get the national recognition from around other places, and I kind of wanted to create our space for us to highlight ourself. And within that I was like, well, since our community is so strong, we need to take the people that love basketball and the people that are here in the cities and just bring them all together in a safe, fun environment, and that's kind of what I wanted the vision to be. And then from that, step by step, I just started thinking of other things: how to implement camps or implement mentorship programs and things of that nature within the basketball event; we're now highlighting local artists or DJs, or things of that nature. Just little things — or local businesses, let's say — just finding small ways to continue to make it a community-based thing, not just a basketball event.

Sanni Brown

Before we go any further, what does Pro-Am mean?

Jamar Diggs

Pro, like professional, and amateur. So, there's professional basketball players and amateur basketball players. There's high school players, there's some guys, the local kid that may go to Tartan or may go to Johnson or may go to Minneapolis. Some high school players, which are amateurs because they don't get paid to play basketball, and now that college basketball has changed, and they start making money as well, they're still considered amateurs, but that's what it is. Guys that play in the NBA, or guys that play internationally, who play basketball for a job, those are professionals. So it's a mix of professionals and amateurs. Or the guy who may not have had the career, let's say with a resume, but can play, he's considered an amateur basketball player. So it's a mix of those players.

Sanni Brown

That's so welcoming. Why do you think the Pro-Am has resonated so strongly with the Twin Cities community?

Jamar Diggs

I think I would just have to highlight again, like basketball — it is a hockey state, Minnesota, they say, but in our neighborhoods and people that we know, we love basketball. So from that standpoint, I just think it's special, because again, people want to come out and see a guy that they may have not seen in a few years, or their stories of somebody's son, a father and son playing together, like Khalid El-Amin and his son Ishmael El-Amin, these are legendary — you would never really get that opportunity to see these guys play. Or you can see brothers playing, or somebody who graduated from your local high school playing against a professional NBA guy, a Timberwolf might come in town, so all of this is just like unique format, which I think it brings a level of excitement, and you know, level of fun, and again, the stakes aren't high, it's not your college team, have to win for a championship, but also it's pride. It's pride in the city, like I get a bunch of my friends together, and we're gonna beat a bunch of your friends — competition. It's nothing serious, but just a competition, and I think that's why I think it's resonated, in my opinion. Selfishly, as a basketball player, one thing I've learned that resonates with basketball is you can see people's emotions and face when you play basketball. Like football, people wear helmets, you may know of a player, but you don't see their face. In basketball, you can really resonate emotionally with them, even from excitement or frustration. I think that is one thing with the sport of basketball, in particular, it's special. And then also, Minnesota, again, it's not that big, so if you don't know somebody, you know one person who knows that person, especially in the sporting world. And I think the combination of those things, coming together and friendships, and again, little small banters, maybe a little St. Paul Minneapolis rivalry, little things like that. It's not intense, but little things like that play a role.

Sanni Brown

Healthy competition.

Jamar Diggs

Exactly.

Sanni Brown

I've heard you mention safe space. It's just so interesting to hear basketball and safe space in the same sentence. But again, I'm an outsider. Is that what makes it so special to you? Is that it's providing that safe space?

Jamar Diggs

I just think that's something that I want to have happen, you know? A majority of the year through work, I'm out of the country; I'm not home. And when I come home, I want to enjoy myself. Growing up as a kid, there were spaces in the community for me that I felt safe, and being from the community, outsiders may have not felt that it was safe, but that's where I grew up, I was like, "Oh no, this is not a problem." So I wanted to make sure that whatever we created, to outsiders and people involved, felt safe. I don't want to keep highlighting safe, but it's just more like fun, healthy competition. I want to re-shift it to there's a level of mentorship, there's a level of networking, there's a level of community. There's a level of I come here, and I have a clothing brand, and maybe not a lot of people know about my clothing brand, but they know this athlete. Well, if I come here and support this athlete, and this athlete supports my clothing brand, and this fan that comes to see this athlete sees my clothing brand, there's a healthy space and environment for those interactions to happen naturally. Obviously, there's a social media aspect; there's obviously marketing, but just, "Oh, this is here at this event? Oh, let me check that out, I never heard about that. And little things like "Oh, I sell healthy juice," "I'm a financial advisor," or "I'm a content creator." It's just bringing all these into one location on top of, "Oh, there's a game happening." It's just one thing to go see a game, but it's another thing to have a network and a community and opportunity, and that's where some of these symposiums that we have and some of these camps, just try to have these things happen at the same time.

Sanni Brown

What can people expect from this year's Twin Cities Pro-Am?

Jamar Diggs

If you've never been, you never know who's gonna be there. So you come there on a Tuesday night, you show up, you don't know who's gonna play, and it might shock you, it might surprise you. It might be a guy that flew in from the Lakers, end up playing. It's a good place to just enjoy basketball, enjoy your neighbor, meet some new people, maybe see somebody you haven't seen in a long time. And again, it's free, so that's what I've always prioritized. I will never charge anything, because it's not about making a dollar; it's about how can we give back, how can we show, how can we create a space that everybody's intertwined and having a good time. This is summertime; you can go to the lake, you can go to the park, but it's like, hey, I want to go check a game out on a Thursday night, I go check a game out. I could come in for an hour, or I could stay and watch both games and be there three hours, and I'll be there next week.

Sanni Brown

For someone who's never been to the Pro-Am, what makes that experience different from experiencing a traditional basketball game?

Jamar Diggs

Multiple things. One thing I would say is the access to the athletes. So you go to a Timberwolves game, unless you have a special relationship, there's no way that you're going to be able to see Anthony Edwards, or there's no way you're going to be able to touch a player or be around. My gym, or our gym, the Pro-Am kids are sitting on the baseline within arm’s reach of the players with photographs, autographs, things like that. Chet Holmgren or Jalen Suggs, they may not be playing, but they'll be in the crowd, and they're right there. We tried to create that space so everybody understand, we're all here for a good time, and also to meet and connect and go from there. And it's not a "brand" or anything that's highlighted; it's like, this is us, this is Minnesota, this is Minneapolis, this is St. Paul, this is the community, this is who we are. So we try to highlight that part of it, and I think that's what's different than you go to a Timberwolves game, it's like, "I'm going to see LeBron James." But you're in the nosebleeds — there's barriers, and you're spending $20 to have a meal; it's just a lot. That's a part of the entertainment; that's not what we want to do. It's healthy competition, access —

Sanni Brown

Community, togetherness.

Jamar Diggs

Exactly, see you putting the words — I should be interviewing you, you should be speaking for me.

Sanni Brown

What excites you about where the Twin Cities Pro-Am is going?

Jamar Diggs

I love it. I love the growth that it's had. Me and my staff, me and the team, we're so excited about how we've been intentional about the little incremental growth that we've had; we didn't want to go too big too fast. But the things that we're doing, like in August 5, we're doing a free camp for kids; we want to bring in some players and guest speakers, and things are finalized from that, but just little things like that. We have a shoe drive; we have a book bag drive that we're doing, like charitable events that we're tying in. Some of our sponsors are doing things within the community that we're funneling. The growth that we have from just five guys or five girls playing basketball together, we're beyond that. It’s just those little things, and I may not be the best at articulating it all, but that's why I try to tell people, just experience it.

Sanni Brown

So, for those who want to experience the Twin Cities Pro-Am, how do we contact you? How do we find out information about that?

Jamar Diggs

So we have our website, twincitiesproam.com, and most of that information is there, and on there we have a schedule, and we keep up to date. Social media as well, we have a Instagram account and a Twitter (X) account as well, @twincitiesproam, is on all our social media. I think that would be the best way, because again, this is rare for us, because we don't market our league. There's a reason we don't market our league.

Sanni Brown

And yet it's this successful.

Jamar Diggs

It's kind of like, if you know, you know.

Sanni Brown

I appreciate you so much, Jamar Diggs from Twin Cities Pro-Am. Thank you. I'm always excited when you guys come in and tell us about summer stuff. So, thank you so much for coming in.

Jamar Diggs

Thank you for having me.

Nicole Nfonoyim-Hara stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about Griot Arts and collaborating with Carbon Sound.

Sanni Brown

Oh, baby, we got a colorful one in here today. Carbon Sound Community Voices would like to welcome the owner and founder of Griot Arts, which is a Black-owned community arts and resistance space in Rochester, dedicated to uplifting Black artists, culture, storytelling, and creative expression through its bookstore, exhibitions, events, workshops, and community programming. Griot Arts has become an important gathering space for artists and creatives in Southeast Minnesota. And here to talk about Griot Arts is the founder and owner, Nicole Nfonoyim-Hara. Welcome, you're so colorful. Welcome, thank you for coming in today.

Nicole Nfonoyim-Hara

Thank you so much for having me.

Sanni Brown

Yay! Ok, so right off the bat, I have heard a lot about Griot Arts, and that's just from around the way, just hearing people talk about it, so that's good, they talk about it. So, for the people who may not be familiar, maybe new to town, or just want to know, what is Griot Arts, and how would you describe the space?

Nicole Nfonoyim-Hara

Griot Arts is a community art space and a bookstore that celebrates Black voices, and it's located in downtown Rochester, Minnesota. I actually feel like to really understand the ethos and the soul of Griot Arts, you also need to understand what the Griot is, and what I named it after. And so I always tell people the Griot was a storyteller in the West African tradition, and not only that, but they were artists, right? They were part of keeping the memory alive and the history of the people through poetry and art objects and dance and music, and so I always like to connect to that historical part of it, and that living tradition, but then also be like, "This is a call for all of us to think about what the arts can do in the community." And then the actual space of Griot Arts was really inspired, I think, by these intimate living rooms, like bell hooks has this thing where she talks about how the first museums and galleries in Black communities were in our homes. And so I thought a lot about, like, ok, in a predominantly white space like Rochester, Minnesota, what does a Black space actually look like? And I wanted to kind of create this living room, so it's kind of giving like, your abolitionist auntie who kind of likes to read romance, it's giving Black intellectual, it's giving Black joy, it's super colorful, you see me dressed here, it's very colorful, it's like candy colored homes from the South and the Caribbean. It's got the wax print and Ankara from West Africa. It's got like the rattan and the wicker from the stoops. So I'm just trying to bring all of that in.

Sanni Brown

What does it mean to you to operate as a Black-owned community and resistance space? Heavy on the resistance space, because how is the living room resistance?

Nicole Nfonoyim-Hara

The living room is resistance because it holds us, right? It holds who we are, and the fullness of who we are, with the history steeped in the tradition of Black bookstores and art spaces and third spaces, and all those spaces were resistant, because they were centering certain narratives and stories that weren't part of the mainstream culture, and so that was already resistant. And at the same time, though, I'm always trying to think about, like, ok, how do we think about how these spaces can also be incubators for a radical imagination? How can we continue to think about what's possible in these spaces? And we already know that that's part of the work that those spaces did, as classrooms, as political mobilization centers, as knowledge centers, as art spaces.

Sanni Brown

Just by you describing the living room, there's a comfort there. Black comfort, I feel like that's a resistance.

Nicole Nfonoyim-Hara

Absolutely. And joy, absolutely.

Sanni Brown

What has it been like to help build and support the creative community in Rochester?

Nicole Nfonoyim-Hara

It's been really beautiful. Full disclosure, not from Rochester originally, didn't grow up in Minnesota, I'm from New York. I made Rochester my home 10 years ago, and one of the first things I went in there was like, "Ok, I do see Black people here, but where is the cultural infrastructure to hold us?" And that's what I was looking for, and that's what I wanted to build within our wider arts and cultural ecosystem. There is arts and culture in Rochester, but the question is who's getting represented, who's being held in those spaces? And Griot Arts was kind of my invitation to be like, ok, how do we build that cultural infrastructure to hold who we are as Black people in that city?

Sanni Brown

Aside from what I just said about Black comfort, why do you think spaces that intentionally center Black creativity, culture, and community are especially important right now?

Nicole Nfonoyim-Hara

It is so urgent, it's always been important, but it's super urgent. I think about the ways in which Black art and culture have been some of our most powerful archives of possibility, right? They really have shown us, the blueprints — I like to call them the Blackprints — for how we thrive, how we survive, and how we move forward. And right now, we're being conditioned to not be able to think outside the box, and I'm like, we can think outside the box, and we could work toward our collective liberation and freedom, and we have the blueprints and the Blackprints for that, not just for us as Black people, for everybody. So like, let's get to it.

Sanni Brown

I mean, everybody like Black culture. On June 27, Carbon Sound will be hosting a networking event at Griot Arts for local artists and creatives. What can we expect?

Nicole Nfonoyim-Hara

We can expect a time to come together as community to connect with one another to share resources. We need these resources. So, what are the resources out there in our region, in our community, and statewide for artists and creatives? And just a place to be. I'm really excited that it's being hosted at Griot Arts, because it's really part of what I built it for, for that connection and that sharing of resources.

Sanni Brown

What do you hope artists and community members take away from this event?

Nicole Nfonoyim-Hara

I hope that they recognize that there are resources; we're not alone. We out here, and that we can support each other, and that there's ways and opportunities for us to lift each other up and be lifted up and continue to do the work we want to do as creatives.

Sanni Brown

I love that you're from New York, and you came here and you did this. I love this, because I talk to young dream chasers, my show specifically, I talk to dream chasers. This is a great example for young people who need to know that the resources are around them and where to tap in. So, how can we find out more about Griot Arts? How can the young kids tap in?

Nicole Nfonoyim-Hara

Well, we out here on the social media, so you can follow us @griotartsmn. Come visit us, Rochester is not that far away. Get a group, come down and see what it's all about.

Sanni Brown

Especially on June 27. All you local artists and creatives, I be talking to you every day to chase your dreams. So make sure you're out at Griot Arts in Rochester, and go say hello to Nicole, or Cole, that's what she said off the mic, we can call her Cole. Thank you for coming in.

Nicole Nfonoyim-Hara

Thank you so much.

Jared Hemming stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about The Cedar Cultural Center and what the vibrant, historic, all-ages venue brings to Minneapolis.

Sanni Brown

Yeah, baby! We in Music Class for another Carbon Sound Community Voices Interview. And in studio today, we have a representative from The Cedar, which is a non-profit all-ages music venue located in the heart of Cedar Riverside, and has been presenting the world's music since 1989. And here to talk about it today, because we need to know, because y'all chasing y'all dreams, Jared Hemming. Welcome, yay!

Jared Hemming

Well hello Sanni, thank you for having me.

Sanni Brown

Thank you for pulling up. So, before we get into The Cedar and what you do with The Cedar, can you give us a pitch about who you are?

Jared Hemming

My name is Jared Hemming, I am a musician, and I work at The Cedar Cultural Center, so I'm a big-time music guy, love live music. I've been working at The Cedar for about 10 years, and in my spare time, I play drums in various bands in the Twin Cities. I just try to live, sleep, eat, breathe music, all the time.

Sanni Brown

I feel like people who chose drums to play, y'all got a little wild child in you. Is that true?

Jared Hemming

Yeah, kind of think Animal from the Muppets. I feel like that's representation for me when I see him on screen.

Sanni Brown

For those like myself who may not be familiar with everything that The Cedar does, what role do you feel like it serves in the Twin Cities?

Jared Hemming

You know, what really sets us apart, I would say — actually, it's a few things. First of all, we are a global music venue, so we love to present music from all across the world. We really try to emphasize bringing international artists into the Twin Cities, especially if it's an artist who might be touring North America for the first time, The Cedar is gonna be one of their first stops. We really try to host a lot of different artists, sort of national debuts here at the Cedar, and stuff like that, but I think obviously just with the way things are in the economy and politically, it has become harder for international artists to tour, so we do obviously supplement our calendar with a healthy amount of national touring artists and local shows as well. But what sets us apart from other venues in the Twin Cities, who we love, our venue is not designed simply just to make money; that's not the only business we're in. We're also a nonprofit, which means that we are able to take more of a risk presenting international artists who might not have a foothold in the Twin Cities market yet, debuting them live on The Cedar stage. We also do more than just host shows. We have a huge focus on support for emerging artists locally and internationally, and we also just love to present live music and dance from all different cultures, and we do a lot of different fun community outreach events as well, so we try to present free music as much as we can.

Sanni Brown

I heard you talk about the local scene. I'm always for the local scene. First of all, I think it's super dope that you create a platform for global artists, and I do think that feeds into the amazingness that is the music scene here. But what are you doing for the local artists? What's happening in Minneapolis?

Jared Hemming

In addition to hiring local artists pretty regularly to open up for headliners at The Cedar, that's often a spot that we reserve for different local artists across the board. Sometimes artists bring their own support acts, but for the most part, we try to hire local artists to be openers at our headlining shows. Honestly, for me, the biggest thing that we do to support local artists that I love is a project we have called The Cedar Commissions. It's this really amazing thing we do every year in partnership with the Jerome Foundation, where we give six different Minnesota-based musicians a grant, and then they have about six months to work on an original piece of music that they debut live on The Cedar stage.

Sanni Brown

Well, dang! That's for the local? I know y'all heard that, y'all better tap in! Music has a unique ability to bring people together across different backgrounds and experiences. How have you seen that happen through The Cedar's work?

Jared Hemming

One way I've seen people from different backgrounds and communities come together is the Cedar Commissions event. One thing that's kind of cool about it is, like I said, it's six different Minnesota musicians who each get this grant.

Sanni Brown

Is this yearly?

Jared Hemming

It's yearly, yep. And actually, it's just about to open up again. So make sure to check out thecedar.org if you're a Minnesota-based musician and you're looking to level up in your live music career or make something new, come work with us. But it's cool because we try to give it to a diverse set of artists, so it's a show that happens every February, it's like a weekend of shows, so we do three artists on Friday night, three artists on Saturday night, and we add two rappers, two different sort of folk-adjacent artists of very different disciplines, and then two sort of wild indie rock, weird art pop kind of experimental artists, as well. And each one of them brought a totally different vibe, totally different sound to The Cedar. So if one of them wasn't your vibe, there were two other artists performing who had a completely different style for you to listen to. One other thing, this is just kind of my go-to little snapshot of what The Cedar is like. We have a program called Global Roots, which is a series that goes on all year long, where we present different shows for free at The Cedar that are being performed by international artists. So that used to take form in something called the Global Roots Fest that we did a few years ago, and in 2022 we had a co-headlining set from two different artists, this folk, quirky, sort of They Might Be Giants-esque folk duo from Estonia called Puuluup, and this Ethiopian, sort of dance party band called QWANQWA. So they each performed at The Cedar on the same night and for the same audience, two totally different sounds. And I remember walking into the green room before we opened up doors, just to let the artists know, like, "Hey, we're gonna open up doors to the public and get the show started pretty soon." And when I walked in, I saw the two guys from Puuluup with their instruments, you know, they have just kind of handmade acoustic weird folk instruments, and they were jamming with members of QWANQWA. These are artists from Estonia, artists from Ethiopia, they don't necessarily speak the same language —

Sanni Brown

But the music speaks the same language. That's fabulous.

Jared Hemming

Yeah, that's the kind of connection you can only see at The Cedar.

Sanni Brown

How do you pick the artists? Somebody got they ear to the streets? How do you select the artists?

Jared Hemming

Artists come to us through all kinds of different ways. We have a lot of different series that we try to book regularly, so for a while, we were doing something called Minneapolis Afrobeats with this artist named Fanaka Nation, who's amazing. We love Fanaka Nation. And that was a really cool series that we did for a while. Currently, we're doing a sort of drone-adjacent series called Noise Party. It's fun, I highly recommend Noise Party. We just did Volume 14 this last week, and Volume 15 is coming up soon. But basically, it's seven or so different local artists, each doing a set, and the kind of hook of it is that we try not to have any break time between acts, so as one act is sort of winding down, the next act will set up and start up right away, so just trying to eliminate transitions between artists, so we can fit more music into our regularly scheduled programming. And that's actually kind of reminiscent of my single favorite show we do every year, called Drone Not Drones. It's kind of one of the things that makes Minneapolis and Minnesota unique, in my opinion. We love Drone Not Drones. It's a 28-hour nonstop drone music festival on The Cedar Stage. So, we start music at 7 pm on a Friday night, usually in January or February, and then the music goes all night long. You can come in and out anytime you want, and we wrap things up at 11 pm the next Saturday night.

Sanni Brown

That's insane, I love that.

Jared Hemming

Yeah, and with the post-pandemic society that we live in, there's not a lot of special events like that anymore, where you can be in a space after hours. People bring their sleeping bags and sleep at the Cedar and spend all 28 hours there. It's incredible.

Sanni Brown

A musical lock-in.

Jared Hemming

Yeah, and it's a benefit for Doctors Without Borders, and it's a celebration of both local music and national music. Some past headliners include Nels Cline of Wilco, Lee Ranaldo of Sonic Youth, Haley Fohr of Circuit des Yeux. They've all done amazing sets at the Drone Not Drones, and often we have between like 30 to 60 different local drone artists just making noise on stage. And like I was mentioning with Noise Party, what kind of makes Drone Not Drones unique is that the drone never stops, so once that first artist gets the music started at 7 pm we have two stage setups, and you know, as one person's sort of winding down their set, the next person will start making a little bit of noise, and the music truly never stops for 28 hours.

Sanni Brown

Wow. Ok, so Juneteenth, word on the street is y'all got Hot 8 Brass Band playing. And first of all, for those of us who may not be well-versed in music language, what's a Hot 8 Brass Band?

Jared Hemming

I feel like what kind of makes a good brass band a good brass band is if they have brass in their name, you know what I mean? Like, I almost feel like the plainer the name, the better the band is gonna be. They just call themselves Hot 8 Brass Band; you know exactly what that is. It's gonna be hot players, hot brass, eight of them on stage, blowing the roof off the sucker, I'm pretty sure.

Sanni Brown

Aside from some hot brass, what else can we expect from this Juneteenth celebration?

Jared Hemming

I think it'll just be joy. If you enjoy music on any level, The Cedar's Juneteenth celebration with Hot 8 Brass Band will probably be the most joyous event in the cities. I mean, really, who doesn't love a hot brass band?

Sanni Brown

I love that. So, Juneteenth is both a celebration of freedom and an opportunity to reflect on Black history and culture. What does it mean for The Cedar to host events that intentionally center Black artistic expression?

Jared Hemming

Well, as music fans and Americans, I think we know how important it is to shine a light on different cultures and how representation matters, especially when it comes to live performance, media, etc. Minnesota is a much more diverse place than people give us credit for, and you can really look no further than The Cedar's calendar to see that mixing pot in action, in my opinion. Black Americans have basically been at the center of every single American musical art form's birth, right? Jazz, rock, country, folk, funk, punk, and these are all genres that we love hosting at The Cedar. None of these genres exist without the Black community in America, and we're proud of that. That's just something we want to highlight.

Sanni Brown

In case we just pulled up, and we like, "I want some hot brass!" How do we locate you? How do we find out and keep up with the events that you guys are putting on at The Cedar?

Jared Hemming

All of our events are on our website, thecedar.org. We're named after our home on Cedar Avenue and Riverside Avenue, right on the corner there in West Bank, Minneapolis. Come on by, we've got hundreds of shows every year. We're a volunteer-run organization, so I didn't mention that. So part of my role at the Cedar is that I'm the volunteer coordinator, and literally every single show we've done at The Cedar since 1989 has been run by volunteers. People who are just like you, just normal folks who are based in the Twin Cities or greater Minnesota, who just maybe want to experience live music, maybe they want to volunteer a little bit, maybe they just want to skip paying for a ticket and just serve a few drinks instead and then come enjoy the live music. I think a lot of people don't necessarily know about The Cedar, or maybe they've been to The Cedar once, but if you are craving live music and you don't necessarily — you're not sure, you're genre agnostic, you're like, "I want to try something new," The Cedar is really the best place for it. We love venues like First Avenue and, obviously, Live Nation; they've got your famous people covered, right? We try to shine a light on the more middle-class scene within the musical community, so try something new. Even if it's an artist you've never heard of, just come by, see a show at The Cedar, you're going to be pleasantly surprised.

Sanni Brown

Again, it's thecedar.org. Jared, thank you so much for coming in and putting me on, because I got some questions, we might have to link up after the fact.

Jared Hemming

Absolutely, please.

Sanni Brown

Thank you again, Jared.

Jared Hemming

Thank you.

Mike Bishop stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about all things Public Functionary — including its free event, The Function “Block Party” on June 13.

Sanni Brown

Hey y'all, we back with another community voice. This person is the director of operations and a lead producer at Public Functionary. But before I get into this, Public Functionary is an artist-led space in Northeast Minneapolis to dream and live in a world where multifaceted identities are celebrated and centered. Young people, I'm talking about this all the time. Their mission is to support the expression of art and culture through studios, galleries, and performance space, and here to talk about that is Mike Bishop. Yay, welcome!

Mike Bishop

Thank you, thank you for having me.

Sanni Brown

For those of us who don't know about you, because I've heard of your name before, and I've heard of Public Functionary, but just give us an elevator pitch about who you are and what you do around town.

Mike Bishop

Yeah, absolutely. With many small organizations, you wear a lot of hats. So what I do would probably, at a larger organization, be like three or four people's jobs. So I am the director of operations at Public Functionary, which on that side of my work, is really kind of like behind the scenes, admin, making sure that things run smoothly, financial management, planning strategy. The stuff you gotta do to make it work, but you know, the things that I used to honestly procrastinate a lot on, but now over the years have gotten better at putting those things first on my to-do list to get out of the way, so that I can then get to the things that feed me a little bit more in the creative work with Public Functionary. But also with the Director of Operations position, I'm really kind of managing how we do things on a day-to-day basis in the space, and also making sure that that aligns with our vision and our mission as an organization. And then the other part of my job, which is really kind of what I consider to be more of my artistic practice, is the lead production role, which is working in space with artists of all disciplines, so from musicians to performers, dancers, visual artists, to help them take their ideas and their visions and materialize them and turn them into something that can happen, and to help them kind of think those things through.

Sanni Brown

Specifically in the Twin Cities, what gap do you feel like the Public Functionary is filling?

Mike Bishop

Yeah, so we started Public Functionary in 2012, that is just crazy to go back to. But prior to starting Public Functionary, my co-director, co-founder, and myself, Tricia Heuring, who I've been working with for that entire time, were working in two other art spaces, XY&Z Gallery, which was leaning more of like a commercial gallery space, and CO exhibitions, which was a little bit more of like a project-oriented space. And so between the work that we were doing in those spaces, we were both still relatively young and kind of figuring out where we fit into the ecosystem in Minneapolis, and it was bringing up more questions than really answers or necessarily us being able to say like, "Let's fill this hole," but it was kind of like, "Why are we not seeing particular artists shown more, particularly artists of color? Why are we not seeing more young people in spaces? Why are people not feeling comfortable in art spaces?" Like, all of these things were kind of percolating for us in our work, and Tricia, who is Thai, was kind of also like, "Where do I fit in as a curator of color in this scene, and where is the space for me?" We kind of created this space, but then I would say the community really kind of started to fill in the holes and help us understand what was really needed, and the more we saw the overlap between these different creatives working together, we started to see what ultimately would become Public Functionary in terms of this multidisciplinary production space, where we really support artists in whatever their visions may be. I've been reading a book recently called ‘The Land Knows the Way' by Ricardo Levins Morales, who is an artist, educator, activist, organizer in the Twin Cities, has been all over the place; he just published this book recently. He's like a gem to the city, the work that he does. You've probably actually seen a poster of his or something somewhere, if you look it up, you're like, "Oh, I've seen that" or heard that quote, you know. And so the book is kind of connecting ecological systems to organizing, and how the two kind of inform each other. One of the chapters is about the importance of soil, and as I was reading this, I had to go back and reread it, actually, because it started to bring up feelings for me and thoughts around what is Public Functionary in this creative ecosystem, and I feel like our role is kind of like being the soil. So, if you have a seed, healthy seed, and you plant it in bad soil, you're not going to yield the results that you're looking for. But if you have healthy soil and you plant that seed, all of a sudden it becomes something that is nourished and becomes something that then evolves and grows out of that. But the cycle of that, then, which I think is so beautiful, and where I think we really fit in, too, is that then what is nourished in that soil becomes something that then nourishes community. So if you're growing food, you're literally nourishing your body. If you're growing flowers, you're providing something that's aesthetically beautiful and something for bees to pollinate. And so I really think of what we do is like being the healthy soil. So part of the goal then is how do we create healthy soil? What does that mean in terms of our values, our beliefs, the culture that we create to foster these artists to help them nourish and grow?

Sanni Brown

What makes the creative ecosystem where music is and where visual art is, and fashion, what makes all of that special to you, in particular, not necessarily Public Functionary, but to you?

Mike Bishop

I mean, I don't know what I would do with my life without that, right? It's what's kept me in the Twin Cities for my life, it's what's gonna keep me here, and it's also something that I feel an obligation to, because of the way that it has nourished and fed me, to continue to nourish and feed it, so that it continues to grow and build into something for the next generation. I think a lot about that within my personal position in the work that I do. The space that is Public Functionary, I don't feel like really existed when I was a kid, so I didn't have that space to go to, and I think about that a lot, about how do we create the space for someone. When I see a young person walk into our space and their eyes light up, and something just clicked for them, of like, "Oh, this is a thing. This is real. I can develop a space, or work in a space like this, or I can just be part of community in a space like this." That's the value to me of what this is, and so I continue to keep trying to just push that further and further and further through the work that I do, and that, again, nourishes community, but that nourishes me as well.

Sanni Brown

Public Functionary got a function going on. It's called The Function Block Party, it's happening on June 13, and it is being described as a "Celebration of what makes our city so special, the resolve and creativity of our neighbors." Hear, hear to that. What inspired the vision?

Mike Bishop

It's particularly potent right now, and I think the reason why it tells you, and why you feel that when you hear it, is because of what the Twin Cities has been through to start this year. And so this is now the third year that we've done The Function. The first two years that we did it, it was definitely still celebration of creative community, bringing the people together that make Public Functionary happen, and just also an introduction to people who have never been to Public Functionary to learn more about what it is that we do. We've done it as a ticketed event in the past, as a way to fundraise for the organization, which is obviously still important, and I don't want to make it seem like we have the funds to just disregard that, because we don't — we're always like, every day trying to figure out where is it coming from, and that's just part of the process of doing this. But after the beginning of this year, it felt inauthentic to us to be pushing a ticket, when everything that was happening in the Twin Cities. And you didn't know what was going to be posted or seen on your feed next, so we just didn't feel okay about that as a team. So, as a team, we really sat with that and thought about, "Ok, we still want to hold The Function. The Function is still important. Joy, pushing back as a form of resistance is still very much needed. How do we do that?" My teammate and co-director, Tricia, had the idea of applying for some grants to look for funding to be able to offset what usually would be covered by the ticket cost. We applied for a grant through the City of Minneapolis; we were lucky enough to get that. Thank you so much to the City of Minneapolis, that, like, I think fulfills some grant requirements. Just use that as a sound bite. But that allowed us to then rethink how do we frame the function this year, and instead of it being just a way to support Public Functionary and a celebration of the work that we do, this year it felt like what we need is really a celebration of the community that showed up to fight back for their neighbors, to push back against what was happening here, and also we want to expand the footprint of the function, we want our neighbors, like our immediate neighbors in Northeast Minneapolis, who maybe don't always come to our events, or know much about what we do, to feel comfortable coming to this and just enjoying and having fun. So that was really where the kind of impetus of the conversation around what the function this year was going to be.

Sanni Brown

So we know the inspiration for why you're doing it. What can we expect the day of?

Mike Bishop

You can expect food, music, art, games. And I'll tell you a little bit more about each of those things. So food, we have an amazing food truck, the Angry Line Cook, coming. We have Beignet Queen coming, they're fantastic, amazing food, both of those. So you can get your food there. We'll have some beverages and other things as well to make sure that you're nourished and feeling good. And then, as far as music, which is kind of what The Function really is for us in the past, we really develop a lot around the musical programming. The artists this year are MMYYKK, so super excited to have him on the stage this year. M. Ada Jamison, who is a producer, does a lot of work behind the scenes, but M. is incredibly talented. She has been making music for film scores and doing production work with Kamilla Love and a lot of local artists, and so very excited to see what she brings to the stage. That's gonna be an incredible set. And then papa mbye, who you had in a couple weeks ago.

Sanni Brown

Yeah! He is a great personality.

Mike Bishop

He is a personality, absolutely. papa coming back is actually kind of a full circle moment. papa is a visual artist as well, very talented visual artist. And when papa was like 17 or 18, him and a group of friends pitched this idea of doing an overnight weekend kind of like residency at the old Public Functionary space, so they like slept in the gallery, and created work, and then turned that into an art show, and so now as papa steps into music and really pushes that medium forward, it's exciting to kind of have him come back into the fold to make things with us, and then a couple of DJs, Alexis Rose and Awa Mally, aka the Mayor, and then our hosts for the day are Lenora Magee and Fanaka Nation.

Sanni Brown

How can we find out more about this? Because you know, we might just be listening to this in passing. Where do we need to find out about Public Functionary, as well as The Function Block Party.

Mike Bishop

Absolutely, publicfunctionary.org, our website has a lot of the information about The Function Block Party, how to register, it is free with registration, but we are asking for registrations just so we have an idea of what to expect, so we know who's coming. Also our Instagram is always a great place to keep up with us too, @pfunctionary, information about the block party as well, and then also future programming, we have a lot of other amazing things coming up. We do The Function, and then we give our team a little break, but then coming back, like July, August, we've got some great programs as well.

Sanni Brown

Awesome. Well, thank you, Mike Bishop, and thank you, Public Functionary, for what y'all doing.

Mike Bishop

Thank you so much.

Angel Beloved of MPLS HOUSE and Shardae Robinson of Power 104.7 stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about Urban Lights’ DJ Night & Fundraiser, the importance of preserving Black creative spaces, and more.

Sanni Brown

Hey y'all, Carbon Sound Community Voices Interviews. We got some folks in here, and they are in here for a wonderful cause. We have Shardae from Power 104.7 as well as Angel from MPLS HOUSE, and they are here to talk about a fundraiser for Urban Lights, which is a historical community Black-owned record store, and we got a fundraiser going on. So, first of all, thank y'all for coming in, especially on the back of something like this. This is dope, thank you. So we're gonna get right to it. Shardae, tell us about the work that you are doing in the community with Power 104.7.

Shardae

I am the morning host, Monday through Friday, from 8am to 10am at Power 104.7. It's called The Wake Up, so we wake the city up, you know what I'm saying. We give y'all your Minnesota updates, because you know, this is home, so we gotta keep everybody updated with what's going on in our backyard. And then a little bit of Hollywood tea, not too messy, just a little bit. And, of course, U.S. World news, so we are up to date on what's happening in our world. So we're in the community because we're giving back in the best way that we can, at least the best way I can, by keeping our community updated on things that's going on around us. Whether if it's fun, whether if it's political, whether if it's important, we want to make sure that those who don't listen to traditional news on the TV, or whatever, that they can tune in via radio, or even on our website, and get those daily updates. And then we're in the community, we have events that we do in the summer all the time. I'm sure we'll get into it, but yeah, that's how we kind of stay included.

Sanni Brown

Awesome. Angel, run the script. What do you do over at MPLS HOUSE?

Angel

We're a collective, so I have two other colleagues in MPLS HOUSE, so mainly DJ gigs around the Twin Cities, corporate DJing, producing some music. I established it in 2017 with one of my co-partners, and now I'm just the founder and running it just around the Twin Cities. I DJ a lot, and I also work with young people in the community, which is very important. I'm involved in the community, and I'm a youth organizer.

Sanni Brown

I love that. I always talk during the week, and let young people know, hey, these people are living out realities that back in the '90s they said this was impossible. So these are the people that y'all need to be pulling up to and listening to. Let's talk about Urban Lights and why this fundraiser matters. I am a super-duper fan of Urban Lights, you do not have to tell me. I want you to tell the young people who do not know. I love Tim Wilson. I love what he's doing. I am fascinated by all of the Twin Cities music history that he has, but I would like to hear it from y'all in particular. Why is the Urban Lights fundraiser so important?

Shardae

So the whole idea of it came — outside of doing radio, I also do a lot of content curation and curating, and I met Andre at Urban Lights through a mutual friend, and I was just like, "Yo, we should do some kind of like DJ fundraiser to help out Tim and all that he's gotten on, preserving the history of Urban Lights." And Andre was like, "Yeah, let's do it. My people will talk with your people, we'll figure this out." So, just coming together and doing that, and it's important because believe it or not, I actually did not know that Urban Lights had the history that it had. I didn't. I'm gonna be honest. So when I first stepped foot in that place, every day you're hearing a new story about something that has happened in hip-hop history and R&B history, all of that. I just go there and I leave with so much knowledge. So I think it's important because this is one of the few safe places that we have to preserve that history, to hear, like I said, different stories, and to even get a little bit of barbershop talk, which is beautiful. It's beautiful. So I think it's important because we got to keep that history strong, especially in Minnesota.

Sanni Brown

And Tim Wilson is one of the few Black record store owners in the country. So that's why this is extremely important. Ok Angel, let us know on the DJ tip, because I know Tim be having DJs in there.

Angel

Yeah, so this will be my first time DJing there, but I've been going to Urban Lights since the '90s. I went to Central High School, that's where a lot of hip-hop shows were popping off, met a lot of cool artists, emcees, DJs, community members, and just looking at the store, when you walk in, there's this warmth of posters, vinyl, CDs. So it's very important to have these sanctuary spaces for Black and brown folks, and just keeping the culture alive — the realness, the soulfulness. Yeah, it just makes me happy.

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Sanni Brown

What are you hoping to happen on the day of the fundraiser? What are you going to be doing? What is it gonna look like? Can you paint it for us? Or that's exclusive, you can't tell us yet?

Angel

For me, my hour vinyl set, I'm pulling out some funk, I'm pulling out disco records, I'm pulling out some early '90s, 2000s house music, so you're gonna get a little flavor of everything, of the soulful culture. So that's what I'm gonna bring. Some fun, come hang out, buy records, come on, we gotta get some support out there, people, come through.

Sanni Brown

Is there anything else that you feel like needs to be added to that, so we can color it and sprinkle it, and make sure the community's pulling up and showing up?

Shardae

I mean, vibing with the vibe that he brings. Bringing the excitement, making people happy to be there, making sure people know that, hey, we're here to have fun, but we're also here to preserve this history, like you said, fundraising, right? So, whether it's $1 — I don't know exactly how they're setting it up, but whether it's $1 or buying vinyl. We are doing a vinyl giveaway, I don't know which one, but yeah, just coming out to not just enjoy the music, but fellowship. So I'm there to make sure that that's happening.

Sanni Brown

You're gonna be hosting, right? So you're bringing your own set of vibes. What date is this happening? What are the details that we all need to know, so we can come pull up and support?

Shardae

June 12, that's a Friday.

Sanni Brown

If we missed this interview, and somebody was like, "Hey, they got a fundraiser for Tim Wilson and them over at Urban Lights." Where can we find all this information?

Shardae

Social media, Carbon Sound has posted the flyer. We're in collaboration on that flyer, so you can find it on my personal social.

Angel

Yeah, my personal social, @mplshouse, Facebook and Instagram.

Shardae

Oh, I didn't even give mine, @allthings_dae. And then, of course, go to Urban Lights, go to their social, you'll see it plastered all over theirs too.

Sanni Brown

Shardae and Angel Beloved, thank you so much for what you're doing. Thank you for being an inspiration, because the young people got to see y'all doing this. And they're also watching you come together and show support for community, so I just really appreciate what you're doing. It supports what we're doing here at Carbon Sound, so absolutely, we want to support you. Thank you so much for coming in today.

Shardae

Thank you.

Angel

Appreciate you.

papa mbye stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about his newest EP JAAKARLO, the Minnesota music scene, and more.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni Brown

Hey y'all, we back at it. It's Carbon Sound Music for Life. We have another guest in here for our Carbon Sound Community Voices. I like it because when I pulled up on him, I was like, "How do I say your name?" He was like, "papa." But before I get to that, he's an artist from Senegal and Gambia, raised in North Minneapolis, and you have a new project called JAAKARLO, and it released on April 24, it's out on all platforms. Carbon Sound Family, welcome, papa mbye. Yay, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. Okay, so a pitch, I like everybody to do their pitch, and I think it's good because then young people who are listening, you gotta have a pitch. So, for those of us who don't know you, tell us about your background from Senegal. How'd you get here from Senegal? And you were raised in North Minneapolis, and now you got this project, give us the backup.

papa mbye

I was born in Gambia, and my dad won a green card lottery, so we came here with my mom and my big sister and my dad to Memphis when I was two, and then we moved to Minnesota when I was like three or four.

Sanni Brown

Wow, and been here since then. How does your background in Senegal and North Minneapolis, how do those influences come through into your sound and your work?

papa mbye

I feel like, my Senegalese influences come through at first very subconsciously, just because it's the music I listened to when I was a child. The name of the project is JAKAARLO, which is the name of my favorite song from a N'dongo Lo album. N'dongo Lo is one of my favorite Senegalese artists that I listened to when I was a kid, and he made a project called Adouna, which basically means life in Wolof, the tribal language in Senegal and Gambia I speak. And the fifth track, I think, is called “Jakaarlo,” which means 'to be close to,' and the lyrics basically translate there's nothing better than being close to someone, talking, laughing, and dancing. And the whole project is just him giving reverence to the people he loves. So I was really inspired by that.

Sanni Brown

Why is that important to you right now? It's one thing to feel that, but why is that important to communicate that with this EP?

papa mbye

I liked this girl when I started making it. And then we ended up dating, and the relationship ended kind of as soon as the project got finished, but it felt like my first time trying to write love songs, and then it also felt like a time capsule of the relationship, so even though it ended, I feel like I have that moment forever. Which was a more positive outlook at something ending for me.

Sanni Brown

Have you approached your previous projects like that?

papa mbye

All my previous projects have been premonitions for breakups, sadly.

Sanni Brown

Wow, so the previous projects have been premonitions for a breakup, and this most recent one, JAKAARLO, that was about this time.

papa mbye

Yeah, I was making it while it's happening, like while I was courting her, or whatever you want to call it.

Sanni Brown

What was your process of capturing your ideas? Because you're feeling it, but then how are you also creating the art that's expressing it?

papa mbye

At that time, me and my homies, Zak Khan, aka Young Dervish, Ben Farmer, FruitPunchLoverBoy, now Christian Music, and Huhroon, we all had a studio together on North Washington, and I was more intentionally going in during the daytime and just trying to get into that flow of work, really treat like a job, I guess. And I honestly didn't make that many songs for this project. It wasn't like, "Oh, I made 30 songs and I picked six," like I just kept going. The title track “JAKAARLO” on this project, I actually made after like a six month musical hiatus, like two years ago, and I remember I just made it on my computer, and I had like all the vocals are on my phone, and I think that was kind of the genesis for this project, that was kind of my north star. And after that, all the songs kind of just came.

Sanni Brown

I like that you said you treated it like it was a job, because again, if you're having this experience with somebody, and then you're feeling it, you're experiencing it. How do you capture that? Do you feel like you that you successfully captured that moment in time on this project?

papa mbye

I think, yeah. After we broke up, I literally could not listen to the project for like a month.

Sanni Brown

Like, listen back to it?

papa mbye

Yeah, I couldn't.

Sanni Brown

Oh, wow, why? It must have been too real.

papa mbye

Yeah it was way too real. Because I feel like I never meant to have music be my thing, I used to draw first. So that's kind of how North Minneapolis ties into me making music, because I was, and I still am, a visual artist, and I feel like that's what informs my music. I like to make music like how I draw, which is just like starting with a line.

Sanni Brown

That's what I wanted to know, what inspires you to really commit to whatever that moment is? Like what inspires you, and it's your drawing and your visual art.

papa mbye

Yeah, just like a commitment to feeling, and a commitment to relinquishing control.

Sanni Brown

That's scary.

papa mbye

Yeah, it is.

Sanni Brown

It's terrifying.

papa mbye

But it's also therapeutic. I make music because it helps me understand more about myself and the world around me, and I'm lucky that it has become what it has become.

Sanni Brown

That's perfect. So you have been a part of a wave of Twin Cities artists who are building community across music, visual art, fashion, and creative spaces. I've been watching you since I've been at Carbon Sound, and my question to you is, I get on the mic and I'm always talking about why y'all are dope. It's because it's the quality of the work that you guys — and when I say you guys, I mean musicians, the visual quality, the production, the audio production. What does the Minnesota music scene mean to you?

papa mbye

Oh, it means everything to me. It means more than music, it's like family, you know? I feel like, specifically with dudes per se, I feel like there's not a lot of spaces for us to be emotionally vulnerable, and so it's been really cool with me and my friends we're making music, I'm hearing their lyrics, we're singing in front of each other, and that gives us a space to be vulnerable, and it opens us up more. And I feel like that's just better for the world, you know?

Sanni Brown

I like that, y'all creating emotionally intelligent spaces.

papa mbye

We trying to.

Sanni Brown

I'm wondering if that's why the music, and if the things that you're producing is hitting so hard, because it's coming from a real place.

papa mbye

Yeah we're some crybabies, for real.

Sanni Brown

Don't call it that!

papa mbye

It's not a bad thing! I don't think it's bad.

Sanni Brown

I think the use of the term crybaby is bad, but I think it's important that young people see grown men like you, and other men who are — you guys are working together and coming together, and it's healthy, and you're creating art that helps people. My favorite song by you is "Pixel," by the way.

papa mbye

Oh, thank you.

Sanni Brown

So this community that you just talked about, do you feel like it creates the freedom for artists to experiment in ways that maybe you might not see in other cities?

papa mbye

Oh, 100%.

Sanni Brown

How so?

papa mbye

Since we're not a huge industry city, I feel like we're not really tied to a bunch of trends that we feel like we have to do to be seen. I feel like people really just be doing their own thing.

Sanni Brown

And yet it intertwines, though.

papa mbye

It intertwines, yeah. But then it's like, if I go to L.A. or New York or anywhere else, I'm playing music from Minneapolis, the thing I get all the time is like, "Where is this from? How do you guys get these sounds?" And I'm like, "We're doing everything that you don't want us to do." You're like, "Oh, record it this way." I'm like, "No, we finna record it on our phones, then record from our phone to our laptop, and then put it in Ableton, and then just go with it.

Sanni Brown

I love that. I have this invisible puzzle piece to help me understand the Minnesota Music scene, and I like that, everybody is kind of doing their own thing, but it works. It does work, and it does create an original sound. So, how can we keep up with your original sound? How can we follow you, if we want to work with you, if we want to support you, how can we do so?

papa mbye

Well, I be in Uptown, I be walking a lot, so you can see me. But also, you can just follow me on Instagram, papambye_. TikTok, same thing, I think it's the same thing on Twitter, I don't know, but I be around.

Sanni Brown

Well, we'll just start with the IG, you seem the most confident in that.

papa mbye

Yes.

Sanni Brown

We're gonna get back to the music, y'all. Thank you, papa mbye, thank you again for stopping by at Carbon Sound. It's The Message, Carbon Sound, Music for Life.

James “Midwest James” Gavins stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about youth arts education through his work at Juxtaposition Arts, his music career as Midwest James, and more.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni Brown

Carbon Sound Community Voices. We are in with another voice. We have interdisciplinary artist, educator, leader, and director of programs at Juxtaposition [Arts]. We have James Gavins, also known as Midwest James. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Nice to meet you.

James Gavins

Nice to meet you as well.

Sanni Brown

Ok so first of all, before we get into what you do, tell us about who Midwest James is.

James Gavins

I've gone by a few names in the past, but I've also done a lot of moving around, and I pretty much stayed in the Midwest, so it got to a point where I was just like, "Imma just call myself Midwest James." Because I've lived here, I lived in Chicago —

Sanni Brown

You've moved that much? To where you're like, "Just call me this region."

James Gavins

And you know what, I've also left and worked on cruise ships, and moved to Atlanta, I've been to like all over the country, and I've realized that the Midwest is for me. I used to think, like, "Oh, I need to go there, I need to go to L.A.," but then the Midwest is just so my speed. So that's really where the name — just me kind of honing in on the fact that this is home to me, no matter where it is in this region, it feels like home.

Sanni Brown

I like that you said that, because there is sort of a push of, "If you want to make it in anything entertainment, you gotta go to the coasts, you gotta go to the east or the west coast. So I do appreciate that when people are like, "Nah, this coast is good for here, for me."

James Gavins

You got the internet, social media, most of them people leaving L.A. and moving to Texas, you know?

Sanni Brown

So you work at, and I'm new to this organization as well, Juxtaposition Arts. What is the work that you do over there? Because if I'm reading right, what y'all do is dope, you work with teens, you have spaces for them to learn, and then I read that you guys take the process of going from idea to actual prototype, and you guys are bringing that to the young kids, because that's what you basically need in life. So tell me about what you do over there.

James Gavins

I'm the director of programs at Juxtaposition Arts. I'm also an alum. I lived here for about three years, I went to North High School, somebody put me on a JXTA, and I was going to JXTA pretty much every day, every day that I could. I've done a lot of work in nonprofit leadership, and the call came for me to come up here and do what I do as a director of programs. JXTA is actually like way more than just a youth program; it's like an art and design hub. It's workforce development. We do apprenticeships where young adults and emerging artists, they come and work within our design labs, environmental design, graphic design, contemporary design, and they're able to get paid and also get a lot of experience. If you think about a person who's gone to JXTA, they've designed a mural that's in the city, they've designed seating or a bench that's in a building, they’ve designed structures, they've designed pocket parks. It's a lot of really great work, and there's a lot of alumni that's out in the world doing some amazing things, going to prestigious art schools, getting scholarships. And it's a really, really great place. So I'm honored to come back and serve, especially in a leadership capacity as far as programming is concerned, so yeah, JXTA is amazing.

Sanni Brown

So I'm a young person around the way, and I want to know more about this art world than I'm hearing people talking about. How would you pitch? Because you made it sound really big, and it might sound intimidating for young folks. So how would you pitch that to me? Like, "Hey, we cover that."

James Gavins

Oh yeah, and I mean, JXTA’s been around for 30 years, you know what I mean?

Sanni Brown

That's why y'all out here stomping with the big dogs.

James Gavins

Shout out to Roger Cummings and DeAnna Cummings. Yeah, JXTA’s been around for a while. I would tell them, like, hey, if you actually want to be trained and also led to a pipeline that could lead to a creative career, this is what you do. First off, you sign up for VALT, which is our visual arts literacy training. It's a free program, college-level drawing course, take it from 12 to 21. And then once you do that, you take that class, you build a portfolio. Then, at a point within that session, they interview with the labs, and you take that portfolio to the labs, and then by the end of that session, they make a choice of who they're want to hire as an apprentice, a paid apprentice, within that lab.

Sanni Brown

So you guys are putting the artists in front of the people who are booking them, or who need their work.

James Gavins

Oh yeah, and JXTA does a lot of in-house projects, but also a lot of client work outside, so it's like they're getting the real experience of doing this work, and they're getting their reps in. And it's invaluable, the amount of mentorship, and also just learning and skill building that's happening if you're there from 14, because you have to be 14 to be an apprentice. So if you're there from 14 to where you graduate, your resume looks insane, like your portfolio looks crazy. It's like "You built what? You did what? And you researched that and did what?"

Sanni Brown

And you take young people as young as 12, so the 12-year-olds got something to look up to when they turn 14. I love that.

James Gavins

We have a summer program called Free Wall, which is like our aerosol arts graffiti program. It's two weeks at a time, and there's about five of them running programmatically during the summer.

Sanni Brown

How do you even pull off something like that? I've just always seen aerosol as something illegal.

James Gavins

And it's more than that, right? It's not like a place where we have our artists spraying on the building, it's not that kind of thing. It's programmatic, it's constructive.

Sanni Brown

The work that you personally do at Juxtaposition, does that affect any of the work that you personally do as Midwest James?

James Gavins

You know, it's really interesting. I was on Facebook, and I got a flashback from like 11 years ago. And I was basically saying that I wanted to get into youth arts education because I want youth to feel as free as I do to do and make whatever they want, and that was such a crazy thing to hear young me say, because it's what I've been doing pretty much most of my career, no matter where I've been, is letting people know that their dreams are tangible, and I think even when I used to go to JXTA, you know, to see artists, they've built their own careers, like they have nice cars, they look nice, they dress nice. It's not this whole starving artist thing. Like, there is a way you can build a career in what you enjoy. And I learned that before I graduated, before I graduated high school, was like, this is real, it's not just a lucky thing, like, no, there's a process to how you can make this work, and there's so many different avenues. Because you could be the artist, you could be the artist administrator, you could be the facilitator, you could be the person that funds the arts, you can be the person that gives away the grants for artists. There's so many different vantage points.

Sanni Brown

Wow, that's so valuable what you're doing. I say this frequently on this stream that our Carbon Sound Community Voices are just people who are courageous enough to chase their dreams. I think when we think of dreams as this like, cloudy thing that's gonna happen off in the future, versus you can strategize and set this up, and then you putting it in a space like art, that's insane. Because a lot of us may still be dealing with the generation who said you can't do art as a career, and you guys are laying it out in front of the young folks. Do you have any events that are coming up, any projects we need to be watching? The young folks need to keep their eyeball on?

James Gavins

I would say follow juxta_arts on Instagram. This is probably gonna be out afterwards, but we're actually creating some adult engagements. We have an event called VALT for Adults, which is basically that drawing level course, but for 21 plus. It's on May 15.

Sanni Brown

I know some people that been wanting to get into drawing, and they feel like it's too late.

James Gavins

It's never too late. So we're jumping into creating some more engagements and furthering the reach. When it comes to the summer, summers get packed. So if anybody's looking to sign up for VALT at JXTA or looking to join any program in the summer, I believe there's some spaces left for the two-week sessions, but summer's packed, it gets busy. But always, you know, if people are looking to sign up for fall, fall is a good time to sign up too, it's never too late.

Sanni Brown

And the site for us to learn about Juxtaposition?

James Gavins

juxtapositionarts.org

Sanni Brown

And then before we go, you dropped music, you gotta project ILK, can you talk about it? Because I don't wanna miss out on that.

James Gavins

So ILK is the third project I've dropped since I moved here. I moved here like a year and a half ago. But I was already tapped in, I went to high school with L.A. Buckner, that's my guy. So when I moved here, most of the people on the album I knew already, I went to church with Jackson Hurst. I know Maya [Marchelle] because of L.A. —

Sanni Brown

Three projects and you just got here?

James Gavins

Oh yeah, I dropped, I got a project called Dante's Inertia, produced by hvlf, also somebody I went to high school with here. That was kind of like my intro to the city. And people just kind of know my writing style, how I get down. And then worked with hvlf again about, I want to say, like six months ago, and made READY UP. READY UP was more of like, "Ok, I can also make commercial stuff too, like I could do that too." And then I just recently linked up with Bushido.chop, and we created ILK, and ILK is kind of me standing in what I believe about myself, what I believe about the level of work that I do.

Sanni Brown

How can we keep up with Midwest James, the music that you're doing, the work that you're doing? Because you're a dream chaser, and I talk about dream chasers. How can the young future dream chasers keep up with Midwest James?

James Gavins

Just follow me @midwestjames on Instagram. Also, I co-host L.A.'s Monday Night at Icehouse every Monday night. Really great live music, plus jam session. I'll probably be there on the mic, so every Monday night at Icehouse, seven to around 11, slide through. It's a great time. Me and L.A. are also doing a residency, a two-day residency at Berlin, One-Man Shows & Immaculate Flows. So I directed a one-man show on him called Things You Can't See, and I'm doing my one-man show, Cicada. And then we're gonna end it with some music, so that's May 27th and 28th at Berlin, so tap into that. Very limited seating, make sure to get some seats. That's how you can get in touch with me now. Music's out on all DSPs. ILK is out.

Sanni Brown

Thank you for stopping in and chatting with us. And yeah, we'll holla at you on the flip side for that directorial. Alright, Carbon Sound, we got to get back to Music class. It's The Message, Carbon Sound, Music for Life. Peace.

Rah Fyah stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about the Minnesota Hip-Hop Street dance community, building experiences like the SOTA Movement, and more.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni Brown

Carbon Sound Community Voices interview, I kind of feel like I get to brag today, because I know you, so this is kind of cool, but Carbon Sound family, Maia Maiden — well I know as Rah Fyah, is a South Minneapolis native who has been a leader in the dance community for over 20 years, representing Hip-Hop culture. Background includes being a dancer and a choreographer. Carbon Sound family, welcome Maia Maiden, who I know, who we all probably affectionately know as Rah Fyah.

Rah Fyah

Thanks for having me. I'm so glad to be here. Good to see you, live in person. It's been a minute, right? But we go way back, so it's ok.

Sanni Brown

It's so dope to watch you become, and I'm really glad that we have this platform here, but I don't want to be selfish and act like this conversation between me and you. So introduce yourself to people who may not know you.

Rah Fyah

Absolutely, absolutely. Hey, what's up? My name is Maia Maiden, but you can and should call me Rah Fyah. I've been in the dance community scene for a long, long time, over 20 years, and just been doing the things and doing them well, and I'm still here doing the things and doing them well. And I'm so excited to talk to you today about our illustrious, fantastic Hip-Hop Street dance community, because we make the thing rock, and I'm super proud of us.

Sanni Brown

Who inspires you?

Rah Fyah

I get a lot of inspiration from my elders, people that poured into me when I was younger, Patricia Brown, Cheles Rhynes, Gesel Mason, Roxanne Wallace, Morris Johnson, those types of folks who were around in the beginning, because I've been doing this since I was in high school. When I say doing this, I mean creating platforms to elevate folks and styles that are underappreciated. So when we talk about the longevity of somebody or something, mine really stems back for creating spaces since high school. But I was a dancer, and dancing since I was young. I am Hip-Hop. I didn't grow into this, I grew up in this. So this means no dance studio Hip-Hop. This means we were dancing in the streets, in the clubs, and battle each other in schools. That's the Hip-Hop that I came from. Affectionately, my era is Golden Era Hip-Hop. So whenever I introduce myself, I say, "My name is Rah Fyah, and I come from Golden Era Hip-Hop." Because that is important to me.

Sanni Brown

I see now, I see Hip-Hop dancing all over the place, and there wasn't spaces like that. It was in the street. It was at the park up the street. Maybe the rec center if the rec center was cool like that.

Rah Fyah

Right, mostly cheerleading, though. We can get into that.

Sanni Brown

So those experiences is what inspired you for the SOTA Movement. Does that stand for anything?

Rah Fyah

Absolutely. We're in the SOTA, Minnesota. The SOTA Movement is something that I'm super proud of and super excited to talk to you about today.

Sanni Brown

Well, how did the vision get started? Tell us about the SOTA.

Rah Fyah

Imma tell y'all a little story. I like to tell stories. So basically, I have been doing ROOTED: Hip-Hop Choreographers Evening, where we highlight all the styles under the Hip-Hop umbrella, as I say, and the roots. And there was, at the time, this battle called Uprizing. We have an illustrious, fantastic, nationally and internationally renowned Krump community here. The Krumpers man, they have taken over, and they are fantastic. So the Uprizing is created by Ololade Gbadamosi, who is known as “Gambit,” and Herb Johnson, aka "Fair Warning." So they created the Uprizing. And I know them, of course, we've been interacting. I've known them for years. They've both been in ROOTED several times. They were in some other shows of mine, Sistah Solo | Being Brothas, all that kind of stuff. So they weren't gonna do it anymore, Uprizing, which is this Krump battle created by two Black men, and I said, "Oh no." So we had a meeting one day, I said, "Guess what we're gonna do?" And they're like, "What?" And said, "I need y'all to come on board and bring back Uprizing." Because they had decided either to put it on pause in perpetuity, or not do it anymore. But I felt that it was so important to our dance community. And in terms of dance community, I'm talking about Minnesota, nationally, internationally, like, this thing keeps going. So I was like, "And I will pay for everything. Because this is important." So we started off the first SOTA Movement, the prequel, it was just the SOTA Movement and IE ROOTED and Uprizing together. I should specify, these are really two separate events under one umbrella. Because we're not in competition with each other either. So we did it one time, that was in 2021, and the krumpers came down, and we had a fantastic time. It was all outside. ROOTED actually was at Park Square Theatre at that time with no audience, because we couldn't have an audience, it was during COVID and things like that. So ROOTED really was supposed to be in 2020. 2020 my mom passed away, and COVID hit, so there was no ROOTED in 2020, so we transitioned to 2021. We did ROOTED online for the first time ever, because this is a live event, live show, and streamed it to like over four or 500 households. And then we had Uprizing, which they did their thing outside. But one of the best parts of that whole experience is that we went to George Floyd Square, and they had a session there, and we started the session with Tamiko French. Tamiko French is a phenomenal dance instructor that has worked in several Minneapolis Public Schools, such as North High School, such as Southwest High School, and she's also a sound bath artist. So we opened the space up with the sound bath. And I said, "Yo, Tamiko, I need you to come through here, because this is about to be a powerful session." Because, again, this is the next year after George Floyd died, and the krumpers came out. And again, they had came out from all parts of the nation to come to this event. So they came out, and it was just such a powerful session, as they call it.

Sanni Brown

I was wondering, because you keep saying session.

Rah Fyah

It's a lab or a session in Krump language. That means they get together and they dance against each other, and they uplift each other. That's what a session or a lab is. I'm not a krumper, they won't accept me. They refuse to train me. That's okay, I still got love for them. I still work with them all the time. Imma stay in my lane. I'm over 40, and so some things you just gotta know. But the krumpers came, and it was such a beautiful experience for all the participants of ROOTED and Uprizing. So from then on, I transitioned it to the SOTA Movement: Minnesota Street Dance Festival. So again, that was the prequel to see if we this could work. Like, "Let's just try this one time. We don't have to do anything beyond this." But again, then it has elevated or grown to the SOTA Movement: Minnesota's Street Dance Festival. And again, we are highlighting all types of Street. We are not dancing in the street per se, but Street dance is a lot of art forms. It's Krump, it's Hip-Hop, it's House, it could be anything, any style created in the street. We all know, or we should know, that Hip-Hop first and foremost, created by Black people, elevated and architected by Black and brown people, but it was called Street dance. So when we're talking about Street, everything that I say has meaning or a connection to something. So Street dance, that's what Hip-Hop was known as, before we had a name to it. And it was in the street. It supposedly started at a house party. We always haven't been on the stage. We were in house parties doing this before it got any names or classifications. So now we incorporate all different types of street styles, including street styles, not only in Minnesota, but nationally and internationally. So it's really been fun.

Sanni Brown

That sounds so exciting. So what can we specifically expect from y'all? Because you done got me all hype.

Rah Fyah

You can expect a fantastic time. The first thing we rock out with the SOTA Movement is something called The Gathering, where we come together and we gather in the name of Street dance and just elevation and just getting together. So the first time we did The Gathering, we had the almighty, who has just been named a McKnight Fellow, Tish Jones, we had TruArtSpeaks in the building. And we had just a lovely, lovely time. And she cultivated a space, and we were there. The second time we had, The Gathering was focused on uplifting women in Hip-Hop and all the generations and all the styles. So that was fun. And now this third time, when we come back, I'm gonna tell y'all a secret. This is breaking news. For 2027, don't call me about this this year, we talking about 2027 because that's when the next one is. We are focused on the Golden Era of Hip-Hop, so we gonna have some surprises in there. But if you are Golden Era Hip-Hop, everybody's influenced by Golden Era Hip-Hop. So y'all all should be there for the elevation and celebration and honoring of Golden Era Hip-Hop. So that's the vibe for the SOTA Movement 2027 in June. So mark your calendar now. We sell out all shows. When I tell you this, I kid you not. This is something that some people say, but we actually do it. We have sold out every single show, every single time for the past 16 years. Every single show, every single time for the past 16 years. So let that resonate in your spirit. Big up Herb and O, big up my squad, Karina and Ashuna. And big up DJ Digie, because he is in the space too, and he is part of the SOTA Movement, and is the DJ for ROOTED, and is the DJ for Uprizing, and just an all around fantastic artist, DJ, and nationally known photographer.

Sanni Brown

So how do we keep up with all that? Because you talking about stop playing with the sold-out show. So how do we follow and keep up with that?

Rah Fyah

So you can go to two websites. You can go to my website Maia Maiden Productions. We are a performing arts presenter. You can go to maiamaiden.com, or you can go to sotamove.com. So either one of those websites will keep you informed about when the next SOTA Movement is going to hit, and you do not want to miss it, and you gonna see us all over the place. You heard it here at Carbon Sound first in 2026, that this is coming in 2027 and we play no games, and we're super excited to welcome everybody.

Sanni Brown

Thank you, Maia Maiden. Thank you, Rah Fyah.

Rah Fyah

Thank you for having me.

Maija García stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about all things The Capri: a historic cultural arts center and vibrant community hub in North Minneapolis.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni Brown

Carbon Sound Community Voices, I am so excited. Carbon Sound family, in studio, we have a visionary artist. I mean, this lady got a resume, I know I got a little, you know, a little list to go by. She's recognized for her dynamic work across theater, film and television, music, dance and live installations. The Capri is a historic and beloved theater located in the North Minneapolis Community and situated on the popular West Broadway Street. And Maija García is going to come in and talk to us about all the work, or at least her most recent projects, because you got a lot of stuff going on. So Maija García, welcome to Carbon Sound studios, yay!

Maija García

Thank you so much. It's good to be here.

Sanni Brown

Thank you. Okay, so just real quick, can you familiarize us with the Capri and its role in North Minneapolis?

Maija García

Come on through. So like you said, it's right on West Broadway in the West Broadway corridor, and the Capri is about to celebrate 100 years in 2027. Which also happens to be our address, 2027 West Broadway, which I found wildly beautiful.

Sanni Brown

I don't ignore stuff like that at all.

Maija García

So the Capri is an historic space. It's an historic theater that has stood the test of time. It is the last of 13 theaters in the Northside. So there used to be 13 theaters in North Minneapolis, and now there's one. So we really hold an important space in our community. And in the last five years, the Capri was renovated and expanded. So it's a 250-seat house, which, you know, we present film, music, theater, dance, community convenings, panels, forums, all of the above, and now we have an open space with a black box theater. We can hold conferences, we can hold parties, we can do performance spaces in our black box. But we also have a Best Buy Teen Tech Center, so free for teens to come and interact with all kinds of technology, film, music. We have a podcast studio, recording studio, a film and TV studio. They can do 3D printing, they can do editing, etc. And then we also have classrooms and a rehearsal studio. So everything is possible at the Capri, and we serve people across the life cycle: youth, adults, elders, families. I just like to say, when people come to the Capri they get lit up, and they connect and they convene.

The Capri renovations

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Sanni Brown

My next question was gonna be, what makes the Capri unique from other theater spaces, but I feel like you already said. Could you be specific? Because I grew up in theater, so just hearing that you can do all that at the theater is crazy to me, but for people who may not know, they may have a young ear, they may not know what to expect from theaters. What would make Capri different from regular theater spaces?

Maija García

For a couple of reasons, I think we're distinct. One is that we are intergenerational. We serve youth, we have youth development programs for middle school and high school students. But then we also have apprenticeship programs for young professionals to learn all areas of production, sound, lighting, projection. And then we have programs for adults, like our Capri Glee, which is 100-person choir led by J.D. Steele. We also have the MacPhail Community Youth Choir, also led by J.D. Steele. We have a big band, a Capri big band, where musicians come to practice big band jazz. So we really have an intergenerational community. We have a multicultural community. It is a space that centers Black life and Black culture, and everyone is welcome. And it's also an interdisciplinary space. And so musicians know the Capri, and it's really a gateway for a lot of, especially Black musicians in the Twin Cities. You know, you better come through the Capri at least once, it's kind of a gateway for a lot of early careers. But we also celebrate musicians at the height of their careers, and celebrate musicians who have made an impact in the Twin Cities and across the globe. But we also present theater. We present film. We have a partnership with the Minneapolis Film Society, and so we present first Thursday films, the popcorn is popping. And then after the show, after the film, we have a community conversation. And that's really something that we thread throughout our programming, is that we're really about creating inspiring experiences for folks, but then also giving people a chance to talk, to connect.

Sanni Brown

That's awesome. I grew up in the theater, and I felt like the theater was just where you go to see performances, versus it sounds like, yes, you can come see performances, but you could also come here to learn. You can also come here to study. You can also come here to network.

Maija García

That's right, and finally, we're also a production house, so a lot of organizations and advocacy groups, they book our space to do their own thing. So we kind of lean in, and meet people where they are and bring our creative services, if you will, to whatever your vision is. You want to have a fundraiser — you want to do a Carbon Sound fundraiser, any number of events, educational events, networking events, marketplace events. We can do it all. We have a beautiful lobby space. We have a gorgeous art gallery, so we're also supporting visual artists as well.

Sanni Brown

I see why you've been open for 100 years. I mean, it sounds like you're really understanding the theater needs, not just performance, but also, we can also help you learn about the theater world. The Capri often pairs film centering Black stories and history with community conversation, like you just said, why is that important to have the conversation piece versus just going in there, seeing the show and going about your business?

Maija García

Yeah, it's such a great question. You know, when any of us have an experience where we're inside of a theater, we see a film, so much gets lifted within us, right? It's almost like our cells start to regenerate more quickly, you know, like we become more alive. That's what art does for us. We become more alive, as we were saying, we become more present, and then we become more available to one another. And so to engage in conversation, a community conversation, a dialog, to ask big questions, to dig in, to disagree. This is the practice of democracy in action, as far as I'm concerned. It's a civic engagement, but it's also an opportunity for people to really voice their opinions and their real feelings, their responses to what they're seeing on stage or on screen, and it's enlightening because it allows people to amplify their worldview by hearing the voices and the opinions of others, and it creates connections in our community that I think are so vital. We need to know one another, even if we don't know each other's names, our hearts have beat at the same pace next to one another in a theater, and when we see each other on the street, we nod, we smile, we connect, right? So that's just how we, I think, how we weave and embed culture in our community.

Sanni Brown

How does that help, in terms of feedback for the people who are putting on the programs, or the people who are the actors, everybody that's behind the curtain, how does the conversations help you guys?

Maija García

You know, when I first started out, I started this organization called Organic Magnetics. I named it Organic Magnetics because I see art as a natural way that we bring people together. And I had this big vision, "Oh, we're going to create transformative experiences for audiences." And after about five years, I had an epiphany, and I realized the transformation is happening among those involved in the art making, more than anything.

Sanni Brown

I think that's so hard to grasp, because I think we go into it like, I'm gonna help everybody, and then you find out, you get help.

Maija García

It's like being the change we want to see in the world, right? And the beautiful thing about theater, or any sort of collaborative endeavor, creative endeavor, is that collaboration is at the heart of it. And that transformative experience for everybody involved is the gift that you give, that you offer your audience, and they get a taste of it, but we are getting the real meal when we engage in creative endeavor. To answer your question, we want to fly the doors open for people to get more involved behind the scenes, right? Whether that's an apprentice getting involved in the tech booth, learning how to run a light board or a sound board, building real skills that they can bring into any corporate world. You know, production skills are life skills and transferable skills, but also just to have the experience of building something greater than yourself, right? Building something you couldn't do on your own, and you learn how to do it with other people. And anybody can learn that at any stage of life, right? So we like to fly the doors open and say, "Come create with us. Co-create with us."

Sanni Brown

I like that playfulness. There's a playfulness to it. How can we engage in the play? How can we support? How can we, well, number one, find out more about The Capri? Because somebody might just be listening and be like, "I wanna play too!" And then, how can we support?

Maija García

Well, I would say, first things first, just come by. You know, check out our calendar, thecapri.org. We have all kinds of events happening all the time. And so, you know, tap in. There are free events, there are really low cost events. We don't turn anybody away. So come tap in and check it out if you haven't been to the Capri or you haven't been in a while, if you haven't seen it since the renovation, you're definitely gonna wanna check out our gallery and our black box. And then if you sign up on our newsletter, you'll get regular updates. We promise not to blast you too often, but, you know, get involved, also. There are a lot of opportunities to volunteer, there's a lot of opportunities to sort of dig in on some community forums. We have a lot of town halls. Al McFarlane from Insight News hosts regular town halls about sort of the economic resurgence and renaissance in North Minneapolis. So there's a lot of beautiful things happening. Northside Forward, you know, African American Leadership Forum, there's a lot of organizations that are working concurrently to build North Minneapolis' wealth and well-being.

Sanni Brown

Website or any socials that we need to know about?

Maija García

Everything is @thecapri. @thecaprinorthmpls on Instagram. But if you check out our website, www.thecapri.org, you can find everything from there. Also, if you're interested in booking a space or rehearsal —

Sanni Brown

Dream chasers, I be telling you, there's opportunity sitting right in your face, right up the street, around the way.

Maija García

We got you!

Sanni Brown

thecapri.org. Thank you. Thank you so much for stopping by.

Maija García

Y'all rock.

Terresa Hardaway stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about building community through Black Garnet Books, the importance of Black and brown storytelling, and more.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni Brown

Carbon Sound family, we are in with another interview. I'm so excited to meet people from the community. It's the little girl in me. It's just so cool. But in studio, we have an abolitionist — it's so crazy how you look, because I feel like your reputation, I would be terrified to meet you because you look like you about that business. Abolitionist, design researcher, author, anti-racist facilitator, creative director, organizer, educator, and more. She's dedicated to the liberation, and I like liberation, of Black and brown people through art and design, from Black Garnet Books, Terresa Hardaway, welcome, welcome, welcome, yay!

Terresa Hardaway

Thank you so much for having me.

Sanni Brown

You look like you about that business on paper, baby.

Terresa Hardaway

I am, I am about that business. I am about that in person, if I need to be.

Sanni Brown

I gathered that, but you so pretty, so it's off-putting. So for people who may not be familiar, what is Black Garnet Books, and how would you describe it?

Terresa Hardaway

Black Garnet Books is a bookstore. We are a bookstore that I would describe as a place of imagination, creativity, abolition, a place where Black and brown people are centered, queer folks are centered, and it becomes this third space that people can really see themselves on the shelves.

Sanni Brown

Was that intentional? That it be a third space?

Terresa Hardaway

I don't know if it was intentional, necessarily, you know, it was founded by a completely different person. And so when I acquired it, I have always created like these organizing spaces that do become third spaces, where people are coming there to build community, build friendships, build relationships. And so for me, naturally, Black Garnet Books becomes a third space.

Sanni Brown

I like that. No, because I hear about adults needing a third space, shout out to y'all for that.

Terresa Hardaway

Thank you.

Sanni Brown

What inspired the creation of Black Garnet Books, and why was it important to build a space like this one?

Terresa Hardaway

So this space was started by a dear friend and fellow community organizer, Dionne Sims in 2020. She saw a need, she saw that the community needed to fight back and be able to expand and uplift the narratives of Black and brown people, especially during that time. And so she saw that need, and that's why it was created. And then when I acquired it in 2024, I continued on with that same mission, we have, I think, the same vision for what we'd see that bookstore being in community. It's to disrupt anti-blackness, it's to disrupt the racism that is prevalent in our publishing and book industries. It is for us to be able to bring folks together and hear new authors, hear folks who are speaking about our stories and telling the counter-story, frankly.

Sanni Brown

I like that. That sounds like storytelling, and when I was in school, I learned how important storytelling is to the human experience. So right now, we in a moment where people feeling overwhelmed and restless and angry. What role do you feel like storytelling and literature play in helping people to stay grounded during this time?

Terresa Hardaway

Oh, wow. Well, as an educator as well, I think it is super important for us to be able to talk about our stories, or talk about the narratives I think that especially underrepresented. When I was thinking about this question, I was thinking about this in the framing of like past, present, future. And so storytelling plays a role in those three areas. We have to understand the past, right? We have to understand the counter-histories that aren't being told so that we can understand what's happening today. So in order for us to get from that past piece, we have to then see authors who are talking about the real systemic oppression that is happening in this moment, and be able to help us define that and put words to it. Because when we begin to understand it, we can start to call it out, and we can start to actively move forward in changing that present-day reality. And then we move into future, I just think about the imaginations of Black and brown people and how we are constantly holding on to hope. We have to, in order for us to even be in this — to live a life —

Sanni Brown

Exist.

Terresa Hardaway

Exist, you know, we have to hold on to that hope and that future piece. And so when I think about the future with regard to storytelling, I think about all the authors who are giving us abolitionist futures, who are giving us what collective liberation could look like, who are giving us ways to build relationship and overcome all of these things. And so I think about storytelling in that way, that past, that present, that future being really highlighted so that we can understand where we came from, understand where we're living in now, and understand the future that we all should be trying to fight for.

Sanni Brown

I love that. That's a great segue into my next question. So how are you painting the future with the work that you're doing? What are the initiatives that you're taking? Any events? Anything we need to keep an eye peeled out, in case we want to get involved, we want to support.

Terresa Hardaway

We are constantly doing a ton of events at Black Garnet Books, we have a book club that we have every single month that is a different topic.

Sanni Brown

How do you join the book club? I've been talking about book club since I was a little girl. I've always wanted to join.

Terresa Hardaway

Well, at Black Garnet Books, it's the most accessible thing. Just show up. The book is going to be posted on our website. We also make a post about it on our social media. But you get the book for 15% off, and you just show up to the book club. You can show up having read a chapter, having read the whole book, but just show up and you build community and have conversation about that. So we have a fantasy genre book club. We have an abolitionist genre book club, and we have a graphic novel book club. So we have these kind of three separate areas that folks can join one of, they can join all three of them, but you would get that book for 15% off and build community. All the events that I'm talking about are going to be at the bookstore.

Sanni Brown

How can we support you? People who are listening, how can we support? How can we get the word out about you? Where can we follow you?

Terresa Hardaway

Yeah, you can follow us on all platforms, at Black Garnet Books, and you can support us by attending events, subscribing to our newsletter, shopping in-store or online, attending things that we're doing in community, because we're oftentimes, for instance, we'll be at Pride this year, and so, stopping by our table and supporting us there. There are many ways I think that folks can engage with us if you just pay attention to what we're posting on social and show up to the things that we're doing around community.

Sanni Brown

Terresa, thank you so much for coming in today. You're awesome, and I love your look!

Terresa Hardaway

Thank you!

Mamé Bioh stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about all things Believe In What’s Possible: from community-forward events to youth-centered political activations and fellowships.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni Brown

Carbon Sound family, we have another Carbon Sound Community Voices interview. I'm so excited about these, because I get to actually see the faces that create the Minnesota creative scene, the Minnesota music scene, and everything beyond. Mamé Bioh is a community organizer, creative, and co-founder of Believe In What's Possible. And we gonna get down to why we is believing in what is possible. So Mamé Bioh welcome, welcome, welcome. Ok, so just straight to it. What is Believe In What's Possible? How did it start?

Mamé Bioh

Believe In What's Possible is a youth-led and youth centered nonprofit based in the Twin Cities and outside of the Twin Cities a little bit. We are a collective of amazing young leaders, specifically in the realm of politics, who've been either doing campaign work for the past few years, who've either been doing city work for the past few years, government work to some capacities, or who have been doing really great community work within the community for the past, like three to four years. I'll give a little bit of like my entry into the team. It's a team of, including me, four beautiful women. It was around end of '22, early '23, we had just had a really big state election. I was doing some really, really awesome community work with other organizations, and I had met my other co-founder, Chelsea, and we were in this position where a lot of the spaces that politics runs, that nonprofit spaces run, that just really heavy institutional community spaces operate, have very little young people in them. Very little BIPOC communities, very little marginalized communities, and so we were at a point where the work I was doing wasn't speaking to anybody in my generation. I had just did a voting turnout event where I had brought a bunch of my college friends with me, and afterwards, they're like, "Oh, that was fun. But I wouldn't do that again. I wouldn't really want to engage in that type of work." And also, I think specifically within past, like, five to six years, it's been a lot of just disillusionment around the ways people engage in politics, and around the trust that we have with the government, locally and nationally. But specifically nationally, I think it has really shifted and jaded a lot of the communities that really need —

Sanni Brown

Politics.

Mamé Bioh

You know what I mean? And so we all came together at a mentor's house, and we were just kind of ranting, like just talking the talk. I think we got to a point where we're like, "We don't want to be put in a position where it's so difficult for young people to come into these spaces." Whether it's leading a campaign, whether it's speaking at a hearing, whether it's showcasing artwork, whether it's even building your own campaign. And specifically, one of the things to know about the way politics works, is specifically when it comes to voting, voting operates off a reliability resource. So a lot of the databases that come into voting rely heavily on your consistency. And so, you become a reliable constituent based off of your consistency engaging with the system. Now, to the understanding, who definitely is not going to be the most reliable?

Sanni Brown

Young people.

Mamé Bioh

Young people, single mothers, Black people —

Sanni Brown

Disabled people.

Mamé Bioh

Do you see what I mean? Who's going to be the most reliable? Older white people. And it became this thing where the minute you didn't engage in the system, the minute you didn't engage in voting, it was another reason to just say, "Okay, we don't need to listen to you. We don't need to go into your neighborhood and actually speak to you." It's systemically utilized in that way. It's a cycle. They make it difficult, you back out, they use that exact reason to make it more difficult.

Sanni Brown

Okay, so gaslighting, political gaslighting.

Mamé Bioh

Oh, absolutely.

Sanni Brown

Gotcha. So, y'all got together, y'all having this conversation. You like, "Ok, we need to do something." And so you are now in this conversation, you're realizing certain trends that are used in politics and what's holding these communities back. So then who decides, "Look, we got to put boots on the ground. We got to get this moving."?

Mamé Bioh

So what happened was we wanted to do something extremely different. We really wanted to create a bridge for young people to have a level of connection building, community building, but do it in a way that brought them to the polls. We launched our kind of first year programming. Did a couple events, we did a sip and paint, we did a day party, which was really beautiful.

Sanni Brown

And what age group do you work with the most?

Mamé Bioh

So currently, the age group that we work with is 14 to 29.

Sanni Brown

Because you said sip and paint. I want to be clear.

Mamé Bioh

It's like matcha. You know what I mean?

Sanni Brown

Ok, cocoa. Talking about cocoa.

Mamé Bioh

So it's 14 to 29, specifically because until you turn 30, you are not deemed reliable yet.

Sanni Brown

Wow, I didn't know that.

Mamé Bioh

It's much more complicated than that, but in that retrospect. Even when my co-founders has been voting since they were able to, has been engaging, has been going to polls with their parents, but is not seen as a reliable constituent. Has been working campaigns, but isn't fully looked at from that —

Sanni Brown

It's also interesting that that data is being collected, and analyzed in that way I should say.

Mamé Bioh

It's specifically analyzed because, again, candidates want to — I don't say take the easy way, but they want to make sure that they're getting a bang for their buck. And so like, majority of the work that they're doing when it comes to young people, is going to college campuses, maybe a couple weeks, maybe not even the last week before voting, and saying, "Hey, here's my pamphlet. You should come." Not doing anything. And so we wanted to create more of a nonpartisan, very much community-centered way of operating where we hosted events. So since then, we were able to kind of launch Believe In What's Possible through a variety of programming, one called Scheme Space that created kind of like a thought space, and a thought space and a building space for young people to come share their thoughts, share resources, share understanding and grow as a collective. Then we had Turn Up to Turn Out, which was our community-led, community-forward, kind of like event program where we hosted drag shows, we hosted day parties, and we're doing some really cool stuff this year. I can't say yet, but just some really fun event spaces for people to just feel like a political space is actually for them. And then the other thing that we currently just launched, it's going to be coming in our second year, is the People's Studio.

Sanni Brown

What's the People's Studio?

Mamé Bioh

The People's Studio is one of my favorite things. It is a fellowship program for young creatives and aspiring community organizers —

Sanni Brown

To get involved in the political process?

Mamé Bioh

So what we want to do is we want to bring in the two worlds of creative curation and political action and civic engagement and community organizing and bring them together. So we had a great group of around like eight to nine young people who joined our fellowship and became fellows. And we taught them the fundamentals of what it means to be a community organizer, from understanding mobilizing, from understanding influence to understanding power, really, and understanding what does that what does that power look like? How do you understand it? How do you understand it from the power that you haven't used yet? How do you understand it from the power that someone actually has? And how do you understand the power from how you influence in the spaces that you have, the social settings that you have. Cool, you're a musician and you have a fan base, you can easily create art that pushes that fan base, you know what I mean? And so really creating young leaders in the city who can truly start utilizing their voices a lot more strongly.

Sanni Brown

And the tools that they naturally have.

Mamé Bioh

Exactly, exactly. So it was a beautiful program, and I'm really excited to launch it this year.

Sanni Brown

If other young people want to be a part of this, this sounds really exciting — to me, because I'm nosy. I got a nosiness, and I know that there are young people who are listening, who are also nosy, and they have their ear to the ground, but they might feel like, "I don't know, I didn't grow up around that dynamic." How could they get in touch with you? How can they follow you?

Mamé Bioh

Follow the Believe In What's Possible page, @believinwhatspossible.

Sanni Brown

When you say page, what social media?

Mamé Bioh

Instagram, go to our Instagram. We have our website there as well. You can join our email list. You'll always get the emails from us. We're always posting on Instagram, always reposting stuff. You can even DM the Instagram page and we'll respond back. And then also, I'm a community organizer, so if you want to have coffee, want to sit down, talk more, get to understand how to do that, hit me up. Heyitsmame on Instagram.

Sanni Brown

It's such a big undertaking that you're doing with this, so I'm glad that we can use our platform to support you, and I'm hoping you can come back out here and tell us more about the events that you're doing.

Mamé Bioh

Of course.

Sanni Brown

Mamé Bioh in studio, Carbon Sound. Thank you so much.

Mamé Bioh

Thank you.

Duol Chut of Diesel J's and Smokin on the Runway stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about starting his own business, his upcoming events, and more.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni Brown

In studio, I've been talking about it all week, organizer of Diesel J's, a rolling paper company that hosts community events based around business education, fashion shows, and artist showcases — and honestly, I just met you last year, and you was hustling, Carbon Sound family, Duol Chut.

Duol Chut

Thank you for the introduction, Sanni, and it's a pleasure.

Sanni Brown

So first and foremost, what is Diesel J and how did that come to be?

Duol Chut

So there was a time where my nickname was Diesel. I have, like especially in college, I was just known to have good bud. I'm a connoisseur. I'm just very connoisseur minded.

Sanni Brown

When he say bud, he mean weed?

Duol Chut

Yeah, cannabis. I don't know, what terminology should we be using?

Sanni Brown

I mean, it's legal.

Duol Chut

Yeah, exactly, right? That's what we trying to preach. But that's where the name Diesel J's came from. So we're an organic, all-natural rolling paper brand, and we host community events, mainly cannabis inspired, but we also do a few other ones too.

Sanni Brown

How do you put on community events? Because I feel like marijuana is legalized now, but I just grew up most of my life it was illegal. I don't know, I feel like I'm still in the dark ages of it being illegal, and I'm even still scared to say it on air.

Duol Chut

Honestly, it was like right after COVID, I just stopped drinking. So I just went California sober. So it's been about, really, five years.

Sanni Brown

Pause. What is California sober?

Duol Chut

California sober just means that I don't drink alcohol, or if it's just a special occasion, I'll have a glass of champagne. But for the most part, I just consume cannabis.

Sanni Brown

What was the thing that made you decide to do that?

Duol Chut

Honestly, I had a drinking problem. It was college, but just for a small town and things like that, I just saw what it really did to me and did to like, friends and family. And it was just one of those situations I saw how I was doing without it, and I'm like, "I can't go back." And so that's why I've been California sober for so long. And I just felt like cannabis has helped me be more creative, be more disciplined, and really just kind of figure out what I want to do, and I'm just going at it.

Sanni Brown

You just said that was what you was doing as a part of college life. And then you pivot into Diesel J's, into this company, what was the moment in COVID that made you be like, you want to go from consuming it, to "I want the community to be able to consume, as well as the culture" and coming together and creating this whole experience around it?

Duol Chut

Honestly, it was for representation. In 2020 when COVID happened, I lost my job. So I was figuring out a lot of different things, I started doing reselling of electronics, and I wanted to get into business for sure, 100%. And by 2022, I wasn't drinking, I stopped smoking backwoods, I got the tobacco out of my system, and I just went through all the rolling papers that's out there, all the major brands, and I just didn't really like the experience with them. And I'm like, "Okay, let me just start my own." But what really made me go full out on it was, I have a best friend, he passed away in 2020, and it was kind of due to alcohol. I stopped drinking before that, but after that, I'm like, "Okay, I'm just gonna launch it." I can't really think on it. I'm a person who likes to plan so I had everything written out. It's like, "Okay, I just have to do it, and I'm gonna figure it out. I'm just gonna really apply what I know in business and really figure this out." Because that's the only thing I could do.

Sanni Brown

What does ownership and Black entrepreneurship mean to you, and how did that tie into you creating this business?

Duol Chut

Ownership is huge to me. Have you heard of Earn Your Leisure?

Sanni Brown

I have heard of that, yeah.

Duol Chut

So 2020, 2021 is when they launched, I watched one of their first three episodes on YouTube, and so I literally have been following their story since then. From what they were doing and who they were bringing on, and watching them literally start off a podcast just like this, using their phones just like this to kind of get where they're at now, I took that as inspiration and really watched them and took that into consideration with what I'm doing.

Sanni Brown

Okay, so when does the fashion show come in? How did you tie this in to that? Because I feel like a fashion show is so formal and everybody's got to be on they point, and this seems more like laid back and relaxed. How do you merge them two vibes?

Duol Chut

I guess I'm kind of both. I'm from the military background, I've been doing sports since like sixth grade, so I'm very disciplined, detailed-oriented. I also like to smoke weed and kick back. Before I started even doing our own fashion show, I was a photographer for Black Fashion Week, so I was doing fashion shows, helping them put it together. We'd do seven shows a season, so I did that for a full year. One thing I always recommend to people, if you're really trying to get into a space, and if you're really trying to grow your skills, I just gave my photography for free. Like, this is a great way for me to step in, I was able to do that, they loved the work, I was able to meet a lot of people from there, really able to connect with a lot of different models, different artists. And they called me back the next season. Like, "Hey, we want you to do photography again, and this time we'll pay you. We really loved what you did last time." And plus, I was setting up, still kind of getting my name out there, and so I appreciate Black Fashion Week and Natalie Morrow for that. It was her, Shamika and Ambers Foundation. So that's kind of how I got started into fashion, like, actually working there. But my cousin, she's actually a designer, she was involved in New York Fashion Week. She was the very first fashion show I went to back in like, 2017. I just went out there with my cousins, one of my homies from high school, he was a model. So I'm like, "Okay, cool, this is pretty dope." I just came back from the military, so I was just chilling. Like, I'm about to go to college, it wasn't really anything I was in tune with, but that was my first experience with that. I came back to it once I started my business, because I'm like, "Let me do photography, because it'll save me money, I'll learn the skill, and I could use that as well." And that's kind of where it took me from there, and kind of seeing the lack of it, because I was going to fashion shows and I was going to cannabis events, a lot of them were still underground feel, even though it's kind of legal. And so what came to be was Smokin on the Runway, which was the fact that I have a cannabis brand, mainly rolling papers, but we have some apparel. People didn't really look at cannabis apparel, except for drug rugs, or Cookies, that was like the only major brand people know.

Sanni Brown

I'm telling you, I'm trying to figure out, where does the fashion come in? I have never thought of the cannabis community being known for fashion.

Duol Chut

But there is designers, because guess what? All these same designers, artists, and models love cannabis. They never actually got to experience the actual events because —

Sanni Brown

It was illegal, too.

Duol Chut

They just, "I'm trying to just smoke weed. I'm not trying to get locked up." And so that's still that same stigma. So we're just trying to change that by bringing those two things together, and really showcasing these designers and these people who are cannabis advocates, and some of these designers, they don't have to be a cannabis brand. They're just incorporating cannabis themes into their designs, if that's symbolism, if that's materials like hemp and sustainability. So we do upcycle, so sustainability is a huge part of that. And then we also add a lot of color.

Sanni Brown

So you got a fashion show coming up on May 3. Is the hemp folks gonna be in the building?

Duol Chut

You know it's going to be, you're gonna see some great designs. And additionally, from the fashion show, we're gonna have a limited-edition collaboration with KelsTheGawd. It's going to be his album release as well. Keep that on the hush. I'm just kidding, tell everybody! We trying to have you guys come out. So it's gonna be a limited-edition release of the cones, they're going to be available there. We're gonna have some preorders, so I'm excited for that. This has been one of our goals, and there was just so much synergy coming up for it, and it just felt great.

Sanni Brown

I know you got your show on May 3, but do you have anything else that you could give us like a Carbon Sound exclusive about?

Duol Chut

So we have the NECANN afterparty May 14. And so NECANN, they are the Northeastern Cannabis Association. They do conferences like CHAMPS Trade Show, they do that all across the country, and they came to emerging markets. What I love about NECANN is they're very socially focused, so they work with the community to put this together. They have a percentage of their booth space set aside for social equity applicants. And then additionally, they try to make sure to highlight a lot of the different artists that are coming through. They have like an art basil. So we're doing the official afterparty for them. And it's just another way for us to really kind of grow, connect with different professionals across the country, and also kind of just introduce them to what Minnesota is about. So we're gonna do what we do already, and kind of do that for the conference afterparty, and show them what to expect of our Minnesota cannabis. And the teaser right here is we're trying to put together a free community event at the end of May and early June, and have it become a running series. Because one thing that we've talked about is during all this time and isolation with the cold, with Metro Surge and everything going on, there's a lot of trauma. Psychologically speaking, you need at least four to six positive experiences to kind of get over that negative experience in all relationships. And when I say relationships, I mean community as well. We're trying to put together these free community events, and these events in general, it's just kind of bringing back joy, like you need that so much, especially during this time. And the best way people feel that is through the arts. So we're definitely trying to bring that together.

Sanni Brown

How can we follow you? How can we keep up with you and support what you're doing, so that you can further continue to support the community with your projects.

Duol Chut

You can find us on IG at smokinontherunway, and you can find us on Instagram at chief.diesel for our rolling papers. You can also find us at www.dieseljpapers.com, and at www.sotrmn.org, which is abbreviations for smokinontherunwaymn.org.

Sanni Brown

Thank you so much Duol, thank you for coming out. What makes your rolling papers different than other people's rolling papers?

Duol Chut

I'm glad you asked. So what makes our papers different from most of the papers that you see, is ours is not made out of hemp, it's not made out of rice paper, which is predominantly what's used. We use wood pulp. So ours are called brown paper, so they have a browner tint to them, so it's still all organic, all natural, wood pulp is. But it has like, thicker fibers, so it just burns slower, less likely to canoe. And I enjoy that texture and that consistency better, because if it's dry, or if it's kind of a little bit more moist, it still burns well, and it doesn't just flame out or burn unevenly.

Sanni Brown

Well, thank you. I really appreciate you coming into Carbon Sound fasho.

Duol Chut

I appreciate it, Sanni.

Righteous Emcee stopped by to talk Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about his new album, A Legendary Run.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni Brown

It's The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. An independent hip-hop artist, curator, community builder rooted in the Twin Cities, and just recently came out with one of the dopest hip-hop albums I've heard in 2026 so far. The name of the album is called A Legendary Run, Carbon Sound family, please welcome Righteous Emcee. Thank you so much for coming in, man.

Righteous Emcee

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Sanni Brown

So just straight out the gate, this album, A Legendary Run. Where did that come from? It dropped February 23, 2026, we ain't too far removed.

Righteous Emcee

So initially, I started recording another album. I started recording that, maybe, like, two years ago. And the producer of that album, he had a baby. So he was like, "Yo, I ain't gonna be able to really move around and do a lot of things." So, you know, I kind of took that opportunity just to create something new. And I started making songs, and literally, it just start forming itself, and it turned into A Legendary Run. And as independent artists, a lot of times, we don't look at our journeys as careers, right? We tend to think it's just something that we do, and we love it or whatever, but no, this is a career. And you put a lot of time and effort and energy and money into this craft. It's a career. So I had to take a step back and kind of look at all of the things that I've done, and really just give myself a round of applause. We don't tend to do that so often. A lot of times, we just so stuck in like, survival mode, and I just gotta get it, I gotta get it. But sometimes it's cool to celebrate the wins, and look back at all of the things that you've gone through and say, "Wow, look where I'm at." I think about all of the times when I was a kid, and I would stand on the front porch of my mama's house in Chicago and pretend like I was on a stage and be rapping and doing all the things. And to look at my life now, I've touched all the stages that you can probably touch in this city. So yeah, that's a beautiful thing. I look at A Legendary Run as me looking at it from the standpoint of like, "Wow, I've done a lot," but also, "I got more to do."

Sanni Brown

What would you say are the top three things, real things, that make up Righteous Emcee that you poured into this album?

Righteous Emcee

I would say vulnerability is probably the number one thing that I put into it, just being okay with saying certain things, right? Being ok with talking about what you've been through, being ok with telling your best friends that you love them. Just being ok with certain things because we live in a society where, especially for Black men, we're taught, "Hey, all that crying, check that at the door." But it's like, nah, it's okay to deal with things and go through emotions and feel certain things. So vulnerability was definitely one of them, I would say just knowing who you are. And I know for me personally, I won't speak for anybody else, but for me, I've always kind of been ok with playing the background, because I look at it as everybody has a role to play, right? Everybody has a position. And I've always just said, "Hey, y'all go to the front. I'm cool with playing it back. I'll work on this, and y'all be the stars." But it's like, I'm a star; I can shine bright too. So a lot of it is really about just me saying, "You know what, I know who I am."

Sanni Brown

I'm really glad you said that, because we have a lot of young people listening, and I need them to hear that. They have that star quality as well. Okay, what's the third thing you put in?

Righteous Emcee

I would say just love. Love for the craft, love for the people in my life, love for my kids. It's kind of like how they talk about when your grandma or somebody would make a dish. They would say they put the love in it, measured everything and everything was delicious. And that's how I looked at this album, like, "I'm not gonna rush it." It took a while, it took a year and a half to complete, but it's like, "I'm gonna take my time, I'm gonna put my all into it, and I'm gonna really give everybody just all of me."

Sanni Brown

You can tell. There was a lot of rawness on the album. What does legendary mean to you?

Righteous Emcee

I think that's for whoever is dealing with that, that's for them to decide. I don't think legendary comes with boxes to check off. I think it's however you look at it. Maybe you've overcome an addiction, "I'm legendary," right? Because I did something that so many people couldn't do or still struggling with, right? It could be anything, really. It could be anything that makes you feel like you're legendary. And I know for me personally, what makes me feel like I'm legendary is that when I look back in my life and look back at all of the things that I've been through and where I've come, I never knew that I would be married with children. I never thought that I would be on these stages, like I couldn't see past a year for a long time. But it's like now I'm here, I'm sitting with y'all, and I'm talking about this album, that's legendary to me. So it's whatever you want it to be.

Sanni Brown

How else are you gonna show us Righteous Emcee? What other events you got going on to show us the culture?

Righteous Emcee

April 17, I'll be performing at Acadia. It's for a show for a brother of mine who's out of New Orleans, he's coming here. So that's like the first performance that I'm having post the album. I'm kind of still in that creative mode right now, so I recently just dropped a three-piece special. And basically what that is, is for anybody who actually went to EVEN to purchase the album, I gave them access to three songs, three original songs that I created just for them to have. So I sent that to them, and everybody really enjoyed it. They really loved it. Somebody even said, "Hey, man, I'm loving this with the album, this is crazy." So I'm kind of in this space where I like giving out these small EPs that really pack a punch, so to speak. So I'm putting out another one very soon, but I'm gonna make that available to everybody, and that's gonna be coming soon. So yeah, I'm just really in creative mode right now. Got another album coming out, my brother Bushido.Chop. who's one of the dopest emcees, producers in the city, he's producing my next album that's gonna be coming out sometime in May, and that's gonna be called Subs No Dubs. Hope everybody appreciate that when it come out, and we gonna do it again.

Sanni Brown

We missed this question, but please tell us more about your EVEN account.

Righteous Emcee

EVEN is basically a platform where you can sell your music direct to consumer. And I've been kind of on that for a while and just trying to navigate, like, what's the best way to do that? Because sometimes you put something out and you put a price tag on it, some people feel a way about that, because things are so readily available now. I tell people all the time, streaming to me ain't nothing but a utility at this point. You pay your bill, you get it for the month, and you just pay it again. So you lose a sense of value when it comes to the music, right? It's just like it's always there. But when you actually have to go somewhere, pay for it, do the whole process, download it, all these type of things, you kind of appreciate it just a little bit more through that process. So I wanted people to really appreciate the music and sit with the music. You pay $10 for it, so, "Hey, I'm gonna actually sit with this and listen to it." And then also, you put a lot into the music. Studio time and mixing and mastering and all of these type of things, that ain't free, that costs money. So you want to see some type of return. But for me, it's really not about making the money off of the album. It's just about creating the space where the album can live and breathe. And it's just not something that you can just, "Oh, here it go right here, and I can skip through the songs," and "Oh, it got a little dot by the song, I guess that means that's the best song, let me listen to it." So it eliminates that, and you can just love and sit with the album.

Sanni Brown

Is there a handle we're supposed to follow you on?

Righteous Emcee

Yeah, you can go to Even.biz, and then type in Righteous Emcee, and you'll find me.

Sanni Brown

How can we just keep up with you? What if we're new to town and we just happen to pull into the Twin Cities and we heard this interview, how do we keep up with Righteous Emcee?

Righteous Emcee

Just follow me on Instagram. That's where I'm at, that's the hub for everything. Go to Instagram, righteousemcee on Instagram. Anything new is happening with me, that's where you will probably see it.

Sanni Brown

I gotta follow you. A Legendary Run by Righteous Emcee. If you like lyricism, you like people talking that spit, okay, this is the album for you. In my opinion, no skips. Thank you for doing what you're doing. Thank you for being who you are, and thank you for coming in to Carbon Sound studios.

Righteous Emcee

Thank you for having me.

Sanni Brown

I appreciate you so much. I cannot wait to get that song in here. I already made somebody cry. What is it called?

Righteous Emcee

“'95 Regal.”

Sanni Brown

“'95 Regal,” I knew it was a Buick! That Regal baby, that Regal done got me through some things. Thank you Righteous Emcee, thank you so much.

Righteous Emcee

Appreciate it.

Students from High School for Recording Arts (HSRA) sat down with Carbon Sound’s host Sanni and talked about the impact HSRA has had on their personal, educational, and creative growth.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni Brown 

It's The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. I love the kids. Y'all know I love the kids, and y'all know I love these interviews. We had this group in before, but it was just like the makers and the co-creators and the leaders of this group, but now we got the young folks coming in, and I appreciate that, because I love the kids. I love to listen to what the next generation is going through. In studio, we have High School for Recording Arts, Jahai and I'yani, and they will be coming in today, just to give us a little bit of understanding about the projects that they're working on. But let me just go ahead and run down the receipts. For over two decades, High School for Recording Arts has been a beacon of creativity and empowerment for young artists, providing a platform for students to explore their passion for music and expression. And the mission of High School for Recording Arts is to provide youth the opportunity to achieve a high school diploma through exploration and operation of the music business and other creative endeavors. Carbon Sound family, please welcome from High School for Recording Arts, Jahai and I'yani.

Jahai 

Hello hello!

I'yani 

Hi!

Sanni Brown 

First of all, I love kids. I worked with kids for 25 years before I pivoted into media. I'm just happy to have y'all in and have y'all young energy in today. So thank you for taking time out, because I know y'all could be ripping and running with projects y'all got going.

I'yani 

Thank you for having us.

Jahai 

Yeah, thank you so much.

Sanni Brown 

So tell me about what y'all do over at High School for Recording Arts. Are you both seniors?

Jahai 

I'm a senior.

I'yani 

I'm a senior as well.

Sanni Brown 

That's so exciting. Your senior year, I remember my senior year. Are y'all excited?

Jahai 

I'm excited, but a little scared. I feel old.

Sanni Brown 

What??

I'yani 

That's how I feel like. This is my last February as a teenager, I'll be 20 in June. So, like, I'm literally counting down the months. I will never be a teenager in the month of February ever again.

Sanni Brown  

I hear you. I like that you guys are paying attention, though. So what do you what are you scared of?

Jahai 

Just the unknown. I mean, we stay in the unknown all the time.

Sanni Brown 

Yeah, if you're a creative.

Jahai 

Yeah, that's for sure. It's a new step, not being in school.

Sanni Brown

And it's the end of another step.

Jahai 

Yep, new beginnings and new endings. But it's pretty awesome, but a little scary.

Sanni Brown 

How would you describe your whole high school career? Did you guys go to High School for Recording Arts your whole high school? Is that your whole high school experience?

Jahai 

Yeah, I did.

I'yani 

I did not. My high school experience goes like this. I have never really been a school person, like I love learning, but it's just something about sitting in a classroom under white light for hours and hours and hours at a time, and then you want me to go home and then keep doing the work. I've just never been that kind of learner. So that eventually led me to dropping out my junior year. I would go to the library during the school day and I would read all day. I would get tons of books, and I would just read at the library.

Sanni Brown 

This was after you dropped out?

I'yani 

Yes, this is like, what would have been my junior year. Because my mom — she didn't know that I dropped out. Because I love learning. So that's what I would do. I would just read all day. And then I started making music on my phone, on this app called BandLab, and I posted one of my songs that I made on Snapchat, and a student that used to go to the school, he slid up and was like, "Hey, I like your song." We became friends, and then he was telling me about it [HSRA], and what caught me at first was that school started at 9, because I'm used to, like, 7:40. So I'm like, "Ok, I'm kinda interested." And now I am still here. I was supposed to graduate from HSRA class of 2024, but I chose to stay because of how amazing the school is. Like they really put life into a person — they're not paying me to say this. On everything I love, if it was not for this school, I probably would not have anything going for myself, honestly.

Sanni Brown 

Thank you for sharing your story. That's beautiful how you was like "I ain't feeling this," and it navigated you to where you were supposed to be. That's brave, first of all. That's brave, and you're gonna need that when you graduate. So I hope you grab that. So Jahai, tell us your story.

Jahai 

I went to HSRA for my whole entire school year, but before that, I was homeschooled all my life. We moved around a lot, doing homeschooling because my mom knew that the school system isn't like, it's not all the way there. You know, the bullying, just like the unstructured, the systemic racism that goes through it. And I think at a point, me and my brother, we were like, "Ok, we're doing home schooling. We're getting into high school. I think it's time for us to kinda change what we're doing and go into high school." Not exactly for the learning experience, in like a typical school-related learning, but more of a socially and being around people our age. We were like, "Ok, this is our next step." Me and him had like, a whole meeting together. Like, "Ok, this is gonna be uncomfortable for us. We're kind of stagnant right now, and I think it's best for us to go into high school." And my brother's friend, he actually went to HSRA, but he was like, "Yo, this school is really dope. You should check it out. It's really musical, just check it out for like, one day." And we went up there and it was just like, day one, we were like, "Oh my god."

Sanni Brown 

What grabbed you on that day? When you went, what grabbed you? Like, "Nah, I gotta go here."

Jahai 

When we went, I was wearing a top hat, and a whole, like, suit. And everyone was just like, "Yo, I love what you're wearing. It's unusual, but it's dope." Everyone was so nice. 

Sanni Brown 

It was the energy.

Jahai 

Yeah, it was the energy.

Sanni Brown 

And probably the affirmative vibes. 

Jahai

I was like, "Ok, this is for me." I think HSRA, the way it's structured, kind of reminds me of homeschooling. How it's like, personal. It feels like I'm actually growing instead of doing the work, and that's it. We've had so many different like, life experience. I feel like it teaches you how to be human.

Sanni Brown 

Wow. Can you explain that more? Is it because they care about how the day is structured? What is happening, that it makes you feel like you're human? Is it the curriculum?

I'yani 

A mix of everything.

Jahai 

Yeah, it's a mix of everything. I think, instead of just like, "Ok, this is math for math, you're like, really learning how to apply this in a living situation.

Sanni Brown 

So they relate it to real life situations, versus "You need to know five plus five, and if you don't, you gonna fail."

Jahai 

Right, they make you use your brain. Critical thinking. So I think that's definitely one of the beautiful things about HSRA.

Sanni Brown 

You said that you got on your first plane, you shot a music video, what opportunities have come about since going to the school now?

Jahai 

Yeah, I mean, I've gotten to interview Mayor Carter. I've gotten to do many podcasts and learn how to economically use my creativity in a use. Like, I could start my own business; they've taught me things like that. Which I think is absolutely amazing. I've gotten to go out of state to meet with other schools and do projects and try so many things. It's a lot of dope opportunities.

Sanni Brown  

So based off what I'm hearing from both of you, somebody pitched the school to y'all. How would you all, now, after you've been there, you've experienced it, you're about to graduate, how would you pitch it to young people who may need what you guys are receiving? How would you pitch it?

I'yani 

Man, from the heart, the average school system, in my opinion, is just not built for success in everybody's life. And that does not mean that it's it for you, that it's just wraps. If you're one of those people who is like, "Man, school is really bugging me, I'm just not getting with this," whether it's hard, whether it's the people, the environment, whatever it is, I feel like HSRA offers something different because of how family-like it is. For example, the founder, T.C. Ellis, his sister works there, and everybody calls her "Mama Chi." And that's one of our values. We have four values: family, community, education, and respect. And keeping those values in mind, I really think changes the vibe of the school. It's very little that it's ever violent there. I feel like everybody is just like, "Hey, what's up? How are you doing?" Like I said, you want to be there. It's very welcoming. It's easy to make friends; it's easy to keep friends. And the teachers actually go above and beyond. Like, they'll connect with you one-on-one. They're not just gonna expect you to do the stuff. They will meet you where you're at. They will get very versatile, how they approach things. If one thing's not working for you, they're not just gonna give up on you and say, "Well, it's my way or the highway." I feel like the teachers there are not just there for the paycheck at the end of the day. They really put their hearts in it, and they go above and beyond for all the students, all the same.

Sanni Brown 

Thank you, I'yani. Alright, Jahai.

Jahai 

Couldn't have said it any better. It's a place for the weirdos. It teaches you that you should be weird. HSRA is the place where we accept your weirdness. We want you to thrive off your weirdness.

Sanni Brown 

I like that. It sounds like you guys are free to express yourself as humans. That's what it sounds like. And I know in the larger world, in the cool kids, they say that's weird, but the way I run my thing here is I lean into my own self-expression. So it's really exciting to see you guys have that, because I kind of had to find that, and I'm glad that you guys are receiving that in your youth, because I'm expecting to see some wild creativity in your future. You have a couple of mental health projects. It's called Tune in Speak Out. We're gonna take a break right now, but I wanna talk about that. Ok, so in studio, y'all, we got High School for Recording Arts, Jahai and I'yani. But when we come back, we're going to get into this Tune in Speak Out mental health project that you guys got going on for the youth. So we'll be back on The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life.

Sanni Brown 

We are back with High School for Recording Arts seniors, Jahai and I'yani, and they are in today. We've gotten kind of a taste test of their high school career. They're in their senior year. They've discussed with us how, I would say, affirming High School for Recording Arts is. It's a space for the weirdos and for creatives, and a place where you can express yourself as a young person, and just giving us a contrast about a regular school setting and the setting of that High School for Recording Arts provides them. So first of all, thank you again for y'all being in. Let's get into this mental health here, because everything you guys are describing, it sounds so mentally soothing for a educational space. Not only does it sound like they're providing that, but you guys are actually creating more projects to put out here into the ether. So you have a project called Tune in Speak Out. What's that about?

Jahai 

I mean, I am the album cover. It was a long project, I'd say. It took a lot out of us.

Sanni Brown 

When did it start?

Jahai 

It might have been 2023.

I'yani 

I think that's maybe when it started. Because I remember sitting down with our advisor at the time, and she was like, "We need a project to get going for our advisory. What do you guys wanna do?” And a group of us just decided, of course, we want to make music. That's what that advisor is leaning towards. And we're like, "What about?" And we're like, "Let's just talk about how we feel. Let's just be vulnerable." So that's what we did. Some people on there curated the beats, there's vocals, there's rapping, there's spoken word, I'm pretty sure. But it is very honest, very vulnerable.

Sanni Brown 

So what is it? Is it a podcast? Is it an album?

Jahai and I'yani 

Both.

Sanni Brown 

Wait, what?

Jahai 

Yeah, I think between different songs, there's a podcast segment where I'm the host.

Sanni Brown 

So wait, is it a show? Or is it a —

I'yani 

It's an album. So like, if you go on Spotify and you play like, track one, it's gonna start off with, like, somebody starts speaking, and then the song starts playing, and then the next song will come on, somebody's talking, and then the song will come on. But you kinda correlate each different podcast segment together to kind of like, build that story, and then the music is kind of like, what gets you thinking and just feeling and then understanding, like, "Oh, this is how that correlates," if that makes sense.

Sanni Brown 

And it's you and your other classmates making this music?

Jahai and I'yani 

Yes.

Sanni Brown 

Oh, wow, and doing the podcast. What is the subject matter? How are you addressing your feelings on these podcasts and this project?

I'yani 

Well, me personally, I talked about feeling just heavy. Like my head's in the clouds — that's actually one of my lyrics. Feeling like my head is in the clouds, like I just can't lock in, and being vulnerable and just admitting that I feel that way, because I feel like that's a hard step for some people, and to just say like it's okay to feel how you feel, it's okay to not be okay. You don't always have to be good all the time. But also raising awareness on not dwelling in that feeling for too long, and patting your own self on the back and getting up and just trying again the next day.

Sanni Brown  

And so you're on the cover of this project.

Jahai 

Yes.

Sanni Brown 

Why are you the cover, poster child?

Jahai 

I think it was my willingness. We didn't really know what the cover was gonna be, and someone pulled me aside and was like, "Hey, I'm gonna take a picture of you." I was like, "Ok, dope. Let's do it." And then I see my face on the cover. I'm like, "Ok, this is cool."

I'yani 

Isn't that a recreation of Michael Jackson?

Jahai 

Yeah, it's a recreation of one of his albums. Not sure which one. But it just happened.

Sanni Brown 

What else is your contribution to the project? Are you speaking on the podcast?

Jahai 

Yeah, I'm mainly talking about, of course, like it's okay to be sad, depressed. It happens to all of us. And I think a lot of people would say, like, "No, you gotta do this. You gotta do that. You gotta smoke, you gotta drink." All these inhibitors, when really, it's you gotta just sit with yourself.

Sanni Brown 

Oh, my goodness, young people, it's hard though. It is hard, though. And I will tell you something as grown up, it gets harder, it gets harder. So is this student led? Outside of the adults going, "Hey, we gotta do a project," how hands-on are they? Or do they just let y'all take the reins?

I'yani 

They say "This is the rubric," basically, and then "go, just do it." Like we know how to make the beats. We know how to find a beat, we know how to record all of it. We know how to play the instruments. We know how to write our own stuff. They're like, "We're here if you need us," but they pretty much just, "This is the stuff that y'all need to hit. This is what we're expecting. Go work your magic."

Sanni Brown 

And y'all scared to step outside this? I mean, you just explained a regular adult day. I gotta figure out how to get food. I gotta figure out how to get to work. Y'all have the skill set. I want to ask you about, "And We're Back on the Ground." Is that from you guys?

Jahai and I'yani 

Yeah!

Sanni Brown 

I love that song so much. And we just put it in the system, maybe like in the last six months or something like that, and I be trying not to play it all the time. Is that connected to any project? Or what's that about?

I'yani  

I don't know, I feel like Marcus is really the person for that question. I hope Marcus hears this, either right now or at some point.

Sanni Brown 

That song cold, man!

I'yani 

Literally! He is so talented, and this man just came out of nowhere. We've been friends, classmates for months, and I did not know that this man can make music, let alone rap. And then he just comes, just trailblazing, just on fire.

Sanni Brown 

The cadence, the word play. And just want to confirm, y'all are teenagers?

Jahai 

Yeah, he was 15 making that song.

Sanni Brown 

He was 15?? Woah. I love that song so much. I love that song. I host Carbon Sound on two platforms, Minnesota Public Radio [The Current] and Carbon Sound. And I be trying my best not to play it. It's such a good song, there's so much soul, there's so much in there packed in that song so I'm like, "Dang, what y'all doin over there?? What y'all putting in the gumbo?"

I'yani 

I really hope that Stone and Marcus hear this. I can genuinely say that I had some of the most talented friends ever. I don't know if I'm biased, but you know when somebody shows you something and it's just not —

Sanni Brown 

Listen, I work in radio, ok. I work in radio so —

I'yani 

But my friends are genuinely talented. And it just makes me so proud and so happy. I'm seeing Yellow Roses do their thing, and then you giving Stone and Marcus that compliment, I want them to hear that so they know people see you and you're doing your spill.

Sanni Brown 

What message do you want to leave for the seniors behind you?

Jahai 

I think, at least for me, that it's important to take that role as a leader. To be a leader is to be uncomfortable, but it gives you so many opportunities and teaches you so much. Don't be scared, take that opportunity, even if it's not like "your thing." It's important to get out your comfort zone. It's so important. I think that's the main thing I want to leave when I graduate.

I'yani 

I will piggyback off Jahai and say being a leader in your own life is really important. It's up to you. I wouldn't be where I was if I didn't speak up and advocate for myself, if I didn't share my likes and my dislikes. And I think that it's really important to ask for help. Don't be afraid to depend on people. Don't be afraid to collaborate. Do not gatekeep stuff and keep stuff hidden. Collaborate with your friends, share your talents and your input, and get theirs on yours. Constructive criticism is very, very helpful. To conclude, my last words for the seniors after me: you can do it, believe in yourself, know in yourself, trust in yourself, all is good. It may get hard, but everything in life is hard. Just pick which one you'd rather deal with.

Sanni Brown 

Pick your hard.

I'yani 

Exactly. Pick your hard.

Sanni Brown  

You said that — don't be afraid to ask for help. So I'm gonna ask you to help me. How can Carbon Sound help young folks like y'all?

Jahai 

I think just more opportunities like this. I always love to preach that having young people come into a space like this, opportunities like this, kinda helps them be like, "Okay, I can be someone. I can do something."

I'yani 

Yeah, I would agree. Literally, opportunities like this are so monumental, because this is like, really professional. It's like, real, it's legit. This is an actual station, and you guys take us serious. You're treating us like adults and taking us serious. And I think that's really important, because a lot of young people are looked over just because they're a young person. And I feel like if more young people were given opportunities to be themselves and to be great, then it's contagious. It'll feed off.

Sanni Brown 

I asked what Carbon Sound can do for you. Now, what I need y'all to do for Carbon Sound is I need y'all to keep that spark inside. For real, for real. I appreciate y'all coming in and inspiring the young folks. And congratulations on your senior year. Take pictures. Just really lean in and enjoy this year, because you only get to be a senior once. Unless you know, you keep educating yourself. Really lock in on the moment and make those memories.

Jahai 

Can I give a shout-out?

Sanni Brown  

Absolutely!

Jahai 

Shout out to my band, Yellow Roses. We have a show on March 13, we just won the first round of Battle of the Bands.

Sanni Brown 

Oh, wow, congratulations!

Jahai 

Thank you. So please check us out on Instagram.

Sanni Brown 

Yellow Roses. What music?

Jahai 

I'd say a hardcore punk band. Be on the lookout.

Sanni Brown 

Well, congratulations. I'yani, anything you want to let us know about? Any projects we need to know about?

I'yani 

I'm just gonna say stay tuned for my foot in the door, because it's coming. Just be patient, because I'm working on some stuff, and my heart is in it. So if my heart is in it, it's true.

Sanni Brown 

I'yani, Jahai, thank y'all for coming in today.

Jahai and I'yani 

Thank you.

Sanni Brown 

Alright, Carbon Sound, we're gonna get back to the music. Y'all, we in Music Class. It's The Message, Carbon Sound, Music for Life. Thank y'all.

Tish Jones stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about all things TruArtSpeaks: from their origin story to all the ways they’re celebrating 20 years of their service in 2026.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni Brown 

Carbon Sound Music Class, I got an interview for you. Poet, MC, Hip-Hop Theater Artist and Founding Executive Director of TruArtSpeaks — now entering their 20th year of operation. Carbon Sound family, welcome Tish Jones in the building.

Tish Jones 

Hey, what up. Thank you for having me. Glad to be here.

Sanni Brown 

I'm glad you here. For those who don't know, let's give a elevator pitch for people who don't know who Tish Jones is, and then we'll get into what TruArtSpeaks is.

Tish Jones 

The bio really said it all, kind of succinctly. I'm a poet, I'm an MC, I'm a hip-hop theater artist, organizer, educator. Some people call me an activist. I don't know if I would call myself that, but I do organize and activate people. But really, I'm a Black Auntie at the core, like I show up as a Black Auntie in life.

Sanni Brown 

I love that, I'm an Auntie. When I first started Carbon Sound, they called me the Auntie. So TruArtSpeaks, you've been doing this — as I was doing my radio journey, I would hear about TruArtSpeaks. And you're gonna be entering your 20th year in January. First of all, congratulations.

Tish Jones 

Thank you.

Sanni Brown 

First and foremost, to me as somebody that grew up in the 90s and always heard "You can't do nothing with art. You can't make a living out of art." You're doing rebellious work — 20 years!

Tish Jones 

I appreciate that.

Sanni Brown 

I've seen open mics, I've seen workshops, I think I've seen you give out a couple of scholarships. I believe we worked with a set of students, I think when we first started another show that I host here, that they worked with you. So you're like in the background in these art spaces. So again, congratulations.

Tish Jones 

Thank you.

Sanni Brown 

But first of all, what is TruArtSpeaks? Before we get into longevity and what are you doing to carry the mantle for creatives.

Tish Jones 

We are an arts and culture organization based here in St. Paul. Our mission is to cultivate literacy, leadership and social justice through the study and application of spoken word and hip-hop culture. So really, what it means is we are a cultural preservation institution and we are a cultural exhibition organization. What we are thinking about is how can we utilize spoken word and hip-hop culture to think about transformative, positive social impact. That's our goal. That's our work. How do we keep the tradition? How do we nod back? We really think about Sankofa, right? Like, how do we reach back to the roots of hip-hop culture around the Black genius that created hip-hop culture, the social, political, economic circumstances in which it was birthed, and really highlight, uplift, study and think about those things as we chart a future for ourselves, using hip-hop, which is like one of the most widely recognized languages on the planet. It's a global culture, right? So if you can speak through dance, but you can't speak Japanese, you can go to Japan, do your thing through movement, and still communicate and tell a story. The sort of political activation and narrative storytelling that happens in art here in the U.S., you can see that happening in South Africa when we talk about The Afrikaans Movement and the ways in which hip-hop was speaking to that situation in South Africa. So, you know, we out here. We're trying to train people up. We're working in schools, working in prisons, working in shelters, putting on arts events.

Sanni Brown 

Oh my goodness. You just said a mouthful. Let me run it back. You said cultural preservation and cultural exhibition. That sticks out to me so big, because I see a running theme on social media where they say, "We losing recipes." And you're talking about exhibition. What is the importance of cultural preservation in terms of hip-hop? Because I feel like hip-hop has been exploited so much. So in your words, in your opinion, from your viewpoint, what is the importance of cultural preservation in terms of hip-hop?

Tish Jones 

I think for me, hip-hop is an example of Black ingenuity, and what I think people really want to get at when they say things like Black Excellence. So hip-hop, for us, that was the spirit of our innovation coalescing through multiple different elements. For folks who are not familiar with hip-hop, there are four core elements in hip-hop, and there's an expansive nine, if you are sort of in the community. But when hip-hop started, it started with a party. And it was because of our ingenuity, it was because of our entrepreneurialism, it was because of just cultural things, that if you wasn't 'bout it, you ain't 'bout it, you don't know about it. It was time to go back to school, cats was like, "You know what? Let's throw this party. We can charge at the door, get some fly threads for school." Make it shake, right? And that's the ingenuity. That's the preservation. The preservation piece is like, "Yo, we're actually brilliant. We're innovative, we're resourceful. We create culture." Even DJ Kool Herc, sort of bringing this style from Jamaica. So it's also a diasporic Black ingenuity. Like we are creative, brilliant people in a global context. So even him coming through and changing the way that folks DJ, the way folks listen to and experience music, that's the stuff we're kind of trying to preserve. The history, but also what's behind the history. Especially as the world says hip-hop isn't genius. The world says hip-hop is all bad. And the commercialization, the infiltration of the culture, of the community, the way capitalism came in, you know, quote: "And that's word to Sprite and the millions that they paying me" right? Drake. When people can put the lines in their music so boldly like that, we know that someone else has come into our culture and infiltrated our culture. So we're about like, how do we still teach those skills? Because to DJ is to understand math skills. To be a good, quality dope, fly MC, you have to understand literature. You have to understand poetry, right? There's athleticism, rhythm, math that goes into dancing, right? Being able to catch a beat, or being able to move your body on 1/16 of a beat. Some of those things we don't think about that come naturally, and we can sharpen those skills. And then there's a whole political exploration, if you get into that fifth element, that knowledge of self-peace. There's a social, political and economic history to the etymology of hip-hop that rests in the Black Power Movement, that rests in America's deep intent to destabilize Black communities by building freeways through them, not unlike the Rondo community here in Minnesota. So there's a lot to do. It's a lot to play with.

Sanni Brown 

Wow, the digging. It's a lot of crate digging, but intellectual crate digging. And I feel like this work is so important right now, because I've also been hearing people, I've been looking at videos and stuff — and you got to be careful. Sometimes one person says something, and they turn it into, "Oh, this is a trend." Like, nah, just one person said it. But I've been hearing people say they're tired of rap. And I've even mentioned it on the air, like, "Y'all ain't tired of rap. Y'all tired of that surface level rap." Because humans want to hear stories. Humans are never gonna get tired of storytelling. And so that's what I want to know. How does your cultural exhibition help with that? Because I feel like people saying they're tired of rap, they're tired of what's been exhibited. So what part of your work makes that cultural exhibition so important? Because this conversation is happening while you're doing this work. So are you addressing that? Or this is just what y'all been doing for 20 years?

Tish Jones 

Both and. So for example, to celebrate our 20th-year anniversary, we have an event series coming up. We have a residency at Icehouse for the entirety of 2026, we'll be there once a month. It's beautiful.

Sanni Brown 

That is beautiful. The whole entire year — that's crazy!

Tish Jones  

Yeah, it's gonna be a beautiful thing.

Sanni Brown 

I don't even think I've ever heard of a residency that long. But this is poetry we're talking about, this is hip-hop we're talking about. And you're taking up that much space. Tell us about it, please!

Tish Jones 

Yeah, I got you. So to your question about how are we pushing back against that, and how are we keeping the culture, the series is called the Urgent Emergent Performance Art Series. It's very intentionally curated. Every month there's a different theme. So we're showcasing different types of artists. We're speaking back to different themes in our community, uplifting different folks who are really trying to tell a pressing story based on their craft or their medium. We're launching this series by bringing some sisters in from South Africa who are part of the 29:11 project.

Sanni Brown 

What is the 29:11 project?

Tish Jones 

I'm gonna tell you right now. Go YouTube it, go Google it, because the first time I heard the 29:11 project, when I heard the full group sing —

Sanni Brown 

Is that a choir? I think I've seen them perform.

Tish Jones 

I wept the first time. I mean, like I was on a zoom call. So the way we structure our meetings at our organization is they always start with sharing art. We had a board meeting, and one of my board members that was the art piece that they chose to share that meeting, and the rest of us had to turn our cameras off. Because we were weeping. So we're bringing a small portion of the 29:11 project here, so that these sisters can give us an offering. And the idea, because you know, a lot of the music with the 29:11 project, some of their work is thinking about colonialism and speaking back to colonialism. So we're kicking off this residency like, how do we move from the continent to this place, to a radical Black future? How do we think about colonialism, racism, liberation? What does that look like, and how do we honor, again, Black genius and Black expression? So we're using body, movement, voice, and dance — our people, in this conversation between the continent and where we are right now.

Sanni Brown 

That's so healing. It's just crazy, how you can go from an idea, to these healing practices, to song to movement to sound — everything's incredible.

Tish Jones 

I appreciate you. It's gonna be dope. So we've got the sisters from the 29:11 project. Nomvula, she's headlining. We've got PaviElle French, we've got a voice of culture, DJ Kenna, Blu Bone. And then we got a house band that's gonna be rocking with us throughout the entire series. That's Kevin Washington, Ryan Bynum, and Chris Walah. Every month, y'all. We out here every month. It's gonna be a good time.

Sanni Brown 

If you just pulled up, this gonna be a really exciting year. Poet, MC, hip-hop theater artist, and founding executive director of TruArtSpeaks. All the art baddies, I need you to pull up to the front. If you've been hearing that you can't do nothing with art, I need you to go ahead and throw that out. You are entering your 20th year of TruArtSpeaks and baby, it's gonna be speaking all year. So we're gonna dig into that on this next break. It is The Message, Carbon Sound Music For Life. You are in Music Class, and we'll be right back.

Sanni Brown 

It's The Message, Carbon Sound Music For Life. We are in Music Class. I am super overwhelmed with the energy and essence of Tish Jones. Tish is a poet, a MC, a hip-hop theater artist, and the founding executive director of TruArtSpeaks. We are on part two of this interview. I'm ticked off, because we really need, like, a part three and a part Four. But you are entering your 20th year of TruArtSpeaks, and apparently you have a residency at Icehouse — I've never heard of anything like this before — for an entire year.

Tish Jones 

Shout out to Icehouse. Y'all are fantastic partners. You already know what it is. We've been locked in with Icehouse for years. I appreciate them.

Sanni Brown 

Okay, so if you missed it this last break, we were talking Ryan Bynum, Blu Bone, PaviElle French, the 29:11 project. This is just month one! And I love it, because these are people who believe in what you're doing, so you have clearly proven yourself.

Tish Jones 

The other piece, I'm gonna say — I believe in them. Yeah, they believe in what we do, but I also believe in them. I've known Blu since he was a young person, and I've been watching Blu. It feels like a privilege to be able to invite Blu to participate in this way. Blu actually went through one of our programs. They participated in the Be Heard Minnesota Youth Poetry Slam Series, which is probably like our flagship program, one of the biggest things that we do. And that's back when they were still in high school. I love Blu's Mama, fellow poet, sistren poet in this community. So it's a really full circle moment, because this adult, genius, creative person who I used to just watch paint and be in awe of their painting, and the way they express in that way. Now I'm seeing them express themselves in other ways, and it's beautiful, healing, ritual-based Black work.

Sanni Brown  

Blu Bone is unapologetically Black. That. But I do feel like that's also a testament to the work that you're doing, that this young person came into a space that you created for them, and now they're like, "Yeah, it's on." Now they're performing for you. How did TruArtSpeaks start? How did that start out?

Tish Jones 

I'm gonna try to be as succinct as possible. There are three things that happened that sort of coalesced. And I was like, "Maybe we need a safer space for creatives to be paid equitably and to be safe from financial predators, sexual predators, and be platformed."

Sanni Brown 

I just want to shout out to you and everybody that focuses on that. When y'all come in here and say, "Artists need to be paid equitably." That's huge. That's so huge. When y'all make that a part of your mission, that's so important.

Tish Jones 

I wish we could all get aligned on it. This is such an aside, but I really want to have a conversation with us, you know, actual artist practitioners, about what equitable payment looks like, what equitable pricing looks like, so that we don't sell the culture short, or sell each other out unintentionally. You know what I'm saying? And I think that happens a lot. So if y'all want to holler at me, though, we can have a conversation about it.

Sanni Brown 

That's how I know you doing the work, man. Back to how did TruArtSpeaks start, you were talking about equitable pay for the artists.

Tish Jones 

So there were three things that happened. One, I went to the International Brave New Voices Youth Poetry Slam Festival; I was a young person at that time. The first time I went, I think I was 17, and it was awe-inspiring and eye-opening. There were other 13 to 19-year-olds from all around the world. I'm talking South Africa, Guam, Trinidad and Tobago, New York, Chicago, Idaho, all these places. 600 young people convening to dance, rap. The focus was poetry, but hip-hop was like the cultural container for this festival, and we were speaking truth to power. Most of the writing was political writing. Most of the writing was based on social issues. And it was really a brave new generation of writers and speakers and hip-hop practitioners, learning from the generation before us. Sonia Sanchez, Amiri Baraka and then your hip-hop cast: Queen Latifah, Mos Def, Dead Prez. And I was like, "What this is possible?" You know, "How do I bring this energy back here? How do I make sure that Minnesota has this kind of energy for young people?" At that time, I was 17. Then I was a part of the first B-Girl Be Summit, which was an international celebration of women in hip-hop that happened here, and these women that I love, respect, and served as my mentors. They are the founders of that, right? So being really close to these people who created the first international summit for women in hip-hop, I'm like, "Oh, also, women are brilliant and smart, and we do this, and it's all hip-hop, and I met all these wonderful people." And then there was this tertiary thing around a sadness for me, and an understanding that people didn't necessarily know how to engage with young artists at the time, didn't know how to utilize art towards positive social transformation in a way that was also healthy and healing. So there were some ways I wanted to think about it, like, how do we skill-build? How do we platform? How do we keep folks safe? And then there's all the background stuff, like I said, the inequitable payment, sexual predators, preying on young folks, preying on women in the community. But this tertiary thing was, I worked for this organization, and part of my job in the year that I founded TruArtSpeaks was to catalog the murders that took place in North Minneapolis.

Sanni Brown 

Oh my gosh.

Tish Jones 

Yeah, it was tough.

Sanni Brown  

And how old were you in this position?

Tish Jones 

When I started I was 18, and when I ended, I was 19. So it was a transitional year for me. So I was still very young, and also didn't know. But when I did know, it was like, "Okay, we can't do this anymore." Because part of cataloging it also meant that I had to speak at the vigils of these young people, or of anyone. They weren't all young people, but of people who were murdered. And that year, I knew three of the brothers who were murdered. They were peers. They were my age. We had interfaced in community and in work. And it became very clear, because I had these experiences at Brave New Voices, because I had these experiences with B-Girl Be, that standing on a blood-stained slab of concrete might not be the healthiest way to use my voice. I feel honored to have met with those families. I feel honored to have been able to pay homage to someone's life. But it was very, very tough. So it was this whole thing of like, how can I be a part of ensuring that when we are creating art for social transformation, we're doing it thoughtfully? How can I ensure that we are emotionally safe? Or do my part to create a container where we're emotionally safe, physically safe, paid equitably, because also at that time, as a young person, there was definitely inequity in pay. You platform young people, they could be on stage for an hour. They could teach a workshop with absolutely no training, and be handed 50 bucks. Meanwhile, the person who brought them in —

Sanni Brown 

They got five racks.

Tish Jones 

That's exactly what it is. And it's like, even though they're young, that's inequitable, and we're not teaching them financial literacy by doing that. And I was a victim of that. So yeah, all those pieces are the pieces that made TruArtSpeaks sort of coalesce. We started as a collective. There were a few of us who were like, "Let's do something different. We want to do this art. We want to do guerrilla theater. We want to do hip-hop theater." So we created pieces, we performed publicly everywhere that we could, and it sort of began to take shape into what it is now.

Sanni Brown 

That's powerful, to say that I could do more than stand on this blood-soaked block of cement, wow. And you were so young, but you're a poet too. So you see the world differently. Wow, you were just so young. What do you feel has contributed to the longevity? I feel like that's what you just said. Like how it all started, where it started, the reality of where it started.

Tish Jones 

My answer might be different from other people's answer. And what I appreciate about TruArtSpeaks and even, again, going back to folks like Blu, we have alumni that — people who have been impacted or touched by the work, make the work. I might put an idea out, but people make it happen. It's the people, it's the artists. It's the people all day. That's what did it. It's that I can call PaviElle and be like, "Sis, we celebrating 20 years. I would love to work with you this year." And she — "Say less." It's the power of manifestation. It's like, how intentional we wanted to be this year in our art form. My board chair, he showed the video. I'm like, "Hey, we need them here." And he's like, "Alright, I'm gonna reach out." And then immediately they're like, "Yeah, we know TruArtSpeaks, we down, we coming." It's the people. I just feel thankful and blessed and excited to just be a part of it.

Sanni Brown 

So you said it's the people. Okay, so who is on the TruArtSpeaks team? Let us know who we need to be applauding and clapping it up for.

Tish Jones 

That's what's up. I appreciate that. Got a big shout out to the board, yo. The board of directors is impeccable. So contextually, one of the ways I need to say this, because I say it's the people, right? I have to start by saying, to me, our staff is dope. Y'all know I love y'all. Board is dope. Y'all know I love y'all. But the alumni, I got a sweet spot for the alumni. Because I watched them go and come back and go and come back. I watched them volunteer. I see them make donations. It's such an interesting thing to me to see a person who is 18 years old be like, "Yo, I'm gonna give y'all $50 this year." That's a big deal to me. When you ain't got no job, you in your senior year of high school, you're trying to figure it out, sort it out. Or you go off to college, you come back and you're like, "Here's where I want to be." So I appreciate those folks, because even to do our biggest program, it takes 100 volunteers annually. That's the team that is TruArtSpeaks. Yes, it's Desdamona, yes, it's Aisha, yes, it's MaLLy, yes, it's Danez, yes, it's Anthony. Like, it's all of those people, Ryan, it's us as a core group. But it's also every person who has volunteered for the last 20 years. It's every artist that we've amplified. It's every person we've contracted. It's the videographers we work with, the photographers we work with, the DJs we work with. We have a list of artists on our roster. So there's 60 plus artists who are on this roster who are family. That's who we work with.

Sanni Brown 

Y'all got 60 Minnesota music scene artists in the chamber? What?

Tish Jones 

Oh, for sure. We got this project rolling out. It's a partnership. I can't talk about it yet. I want to so bad, it launches on MLK Day, but we got some artists who are doing some hip-hop facilitation for the littles. And there's a bunch of artists that we working with who are about to make that happen, and it's gonna be beautiful. It's hip-hop education for the small ones, the five and ups. It's gonna be a good time.

Sanni Brown 

I love this. I love the work you're doing. I've always been a fan and to have you in the building, you're just so casually talking about this powerful work. First of all, thank you for not running from that challenge when you were young and you had to catalog those deaths. And you could have ran, and you didn't. You looked deeper, and then you took that real moment of, "You know something? I think I can do something." And just the fact that you were just so young. So now we're here. TruArtSpeaks is here, we are showing that community works, you're giving back to the folks before you, and their wisdom is now being passed down. I feel like y'all in the clutch! Like y'all got it. So what does the future look like? What is 2026 and beyond look like?

Tish Jones 

So this is the thing I was talking about. I was so excited about this little card. My staff, they was like, "This is great." They just weren't excited enough. So 2026 we are celebrating the people who have gotten us here. Again, I'm so clear that TruArtSpeaks wouldn't be here without this community, without the people who make donations, without parents and schools and partners and artists, I'm clear. So this is one way we can celebrate them. We have a member donor base. It's called The Village. The members of The Village, they sustain our work generously. They make a donation to TruArtSpeaks every month, every quarter, annually, they get to choose. And so what we did, I'm gonna say me, because this my idea. I love this idea.

Sanni Brown 

I mean, you have been giving everybody credit, it's alright.

Tish Jones 

This one's my baby. Because I'm like, "Yo, how do I say thank you to these people?" Because when funding dips, when the gig falls through, these are the folks who make sure we still good. And so I created this donor punch card. It's kind of like a coffee card, where you go into a coffee shop, you punch it 10 times and you get a discount, or you get your next one free. So this one, it also honors the people we've worked with for 20 years who are for-profit businesses. So this little punch card has 20 different business logos on it. You go to any one of these businesses, from now until the end of 2026, I'm talking December 31, 2026, present them with this card and you get a 20% discount. So that's what 2026 looks like for us. We celebrating our people.

Sanni Brown 

I hear so much of, "Oh, we need community." And you doing it, man!

Tish Jones 

I appreciate you.

Sanni Brown 

You're doing it on the people level. You're doing it on the business level. This is what art can do people!

Tish Jones 

That's what I'm saying! So you know, (referencing the card) our partners at Flava Cafe, that's where we host our weekly open mic. We've got Moon Palace books on here, we partner with Moon Palace books for our programming. Griot Arts, that's a new partner in our community. There's printing presses on here that we work with all the time. Icehouse is here. Heal Mpls is here, Tongue In Cheek Restaurant. There's 20 businesses on this card. You present this card one time, 20% discount, they'll knock out the logo. Card-carrying members, you can also get it outright if you want to, via our website. But created this for the people, y'all.

Sanni Brown 

I feel like that's your longevity. You so effortlessly pull in people. And I know you believe in them, but they believe in you too. So it's something in there, Tish! It's something in there. So I just want to say thank you. You are inspiring a whole ‘nother generation of artists and creatives. And my goodness to know that this all just started with poetry. Where can we find all this information? How can we keep up with TruArtSpeaks so that we can support too?

Tish Jones 

Got you — www.truartspeaks.org. We are also TruArtSpeaks on all social media platforms. We also outside, holla at us.

Sanni Brown 

I see y'all outside! I'm just floored, because I hear the questions of, "How can we do it?" And you're just out here doing it.

Tish Jones 

They say ask and you shall receive, I just be asking.

Sanni Brown 

Carbon Sound family, get out there and start asking! Thank you, Tish. Thank you for being you. Thank you for what you're doing. And shout out to everybody that has been supporting this. This is community. This is the Minnesota music scene. I want to say, I love you. I don't even know you like that, but — I got love for you Tish.

Tish Jones 

Hey, the love is there! It's mutual, I appreciate you.

BdotCroc sat down with Carbon Sound’s host Sanni and talked about her experience as the In-Arena Host for the Minnesota Lynx this season, finding her voice in music, learning from her losses, and more.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni Brown 

It's The Message, Carbon Sound, Music for Life. And you know what? Everything does come together. She just said this off the mic, but in studio today, the energy in here is absolutely crazy. I know them as one name, but we gonna learn the other name today. North Side Minneapolis artist, MC, entrepreneur, community leader, In-Arena Host for the Minnesota Lynx. I've been watching you on the scene, do your entertainment thing for so long. I know that you also had a show at KMOJ, like I have been watching you. It is so slick to be in here with you and it's just so amazing to have BdotCroc in the building, wow.

BdotCroc 

Thanks for having me, I'm excited. I'm glad we was able to put this together.

Sanni Brown 

I'm really glad because listen, when Bdot say, "Can you come in?" Yes I can come in! Because I know what's going on.

BdotCroc 

I appreciate that for real.

Sanni Brown 

So what's your name? It's Brynne?

BdotCroc 

Yep, Brynne Crockett.

Sanni Brown 

So how do you want me to address you?

BdotCroc 

Bdot is fine.

Sanni Brown 

I like Bdot, that's slick.

BdotCroc 

Whatever's with love and respect.

Sanni Brown 

So I am a low-key fan. I'm just looking at your resume, it's so difficult to even know where to start. IRM Crew?? Like, that's where I want to jump in. So first of all, Bdot is a In-Arena Host for the Minnesota Lynx. So what about your past in your entertainment, in the music that you've made, and the different positions you've had — I've seen you host things for community, for the kids, to tell them about how to make music. How did that prepare you to be the In-Arena Host for the Lynx, and then for this season? Like, wow.

BdotCroc  

My grandma I would say, she's the one that really taught me that I could wear many hats. I remember young feeling, being an artist, I had to be a certain way. Or then working in community with young people, I had to be a certain way. But I really just discovered that, like the Lord says, your gift makes room for you. So I feel like for myself, with the In-Arena Host position, it was a mix of all the things I already loved to do, which was use my voice, build community and connection, cheers and chants, when you think of young people, right? Like call and response. And then being on the stage, I mean performing, right? You want to make sure that the people there are having a good time, and they can feel your spirit and that you're having a good time. And I mean, it's hard not to have a good time when you only lose two games at home. So the Minnesota Lynx, I've been a fan of them forever. You know, just confident women that are really poised, an organization that's really well put together on and off the court. And it just kind of came together. I found out about the audition —

Sanni Brown 

How did you hear about the audition?

BdotCroc 

It was a crazy season in life, actually. I had just transitioned from working full-time as a director for a nonprofit, and I was really trying to see what was for me, like I've grown to be in a space where you want to be in places that you feel the love and the respect. So I was actually going through a really tough transition season, and in March, I want to say — shoutout Jedidiah. He's also a North Polar, I'm a North Polar, I got to shout out the Polars, of course. He was somebody that the athletic director at North Kel had been trying to connect me with, because he did the PA at the Wolves, and he's a Polar as well. And so when we connected, because I've been doing the announcing at North High for their girls and boys basketball for like, almost 10 years now, if not 10 years. And I had a lot of people come up to me after the games, and they would be like, "Really love your voice! Really like your voice!" and it was like, "You should be doing the Wolves or the Gophers or the Lynx." So then Kel connected me with Jedidiah and was like, "Y'all should connect, just in case there's ever any opportunities." So me and Jed probably talked like one time, he just told me he would look out, keep me posted. And then all of a sudden, the Lynx In-Arena Host position dropped, and he sent it to me, and I wanted to be more like the voice, like the person that's just saying the lineups and doing some of that. So he was like, "Nah, man, they looking for an In-Arena Host. I think you'd be perfect for it." And I'm not gonna lie, I didn't feel like I seen people that were reflective of myself, so it was hard to see myself in that spot. But he was like, "I'm telling you, you gonna kill it, just audition." So then I did my audition tape, which I just posted recently on Instagram when I did my end of season wrap up. But it was kind of like, I would say just God. I went in there, I was definitely nervous. I remember I dropped my papers in like slow motion for the script that I was supposed to do. But back to the thing, like you said, everything came full circle doing radio at KMOJ. I learned how to do calls and hits; I could still do my KMOJ hit right now. Everything kind of just came together. And then as I started doing it, like I would just kind of pray before I go out there every game, I was really a student of the game, learning from the other In-Arena Hosts that was present. The team and the staff were really encouraging, they were really motivating, in regards to wanting me to find my own voice, wanting me to be myself, kind of let me off the loop. And then next thing you know, boom, I'm doing it. And it was amazing.

Sanni Brown 

These are the freaking stories. Oh my goodness. I live for stories like that. I love this so much. I feel like there's something magical with the people here on the scene. I hope we capture that here. I hear you talk about God a lot. I'm hearing you talk about God a lot. Is that from your grandmother? Does that play a role in — I'm sorry, I just doubled up with two questions. First, does that come from your grandma? And then, how does that affect your work in the arena, and you working with people and that energy?

BdotCroc 

Man, my mom is a big influence in my life in regards to just having faith and believing in a unbelievable, in sense. She taught me, really, at a young age. I'm her middle child, she has three girls. And she would always say I had such a moral compass, like my mom's life really transitioned and changed when I was like, two years old. So I witnessed that in such a young but real way that I feel like, for me, it was always like I knew God was present. I learned as I got older to build my own relationship with God outside of just religious practices. And I mean, it really impacted me when it's like, you gotta believe, you gotta trust that you're here for a reason, that nobody can get in the way of the reason that you're here.

Sanni Brown 

Except you.

BdotCroc 

Right, except you. And even when people try to get in the way, they really just making another way for you. Because like I said, I was leaving. I had just walked away from a full-time position that I was like, "Man, what am I gonna do? I don't know." And then God was like, all of a sudden, boom, the Minnesota Lynx. And I don't know if this opportunity would have came up if I was willing to stay in that environment. You gotta let go of something to get something else.

Sanni Brown  

That stuff, that's so crazy when you got to let go.

BdotCroc  

Yeah, sound good in the testimony, but the testimony is scary.

Sanni Brown 

Because it's just you and the door.

BdotCroc 

Just you and the door.

Sanni Brown 

Tell me about this season, the experience of this season. It's been a crazy year all around in every industry, but just tell me about this season with the Lynx and your position.

BdotCroc 

The WNBA is in such a pivotal position right now, like it's got more visibility than it ever has. It helps to be a part of a franchise that is a winning franchise. I mean, they've won four championships. I feel like for myself just coming in, I had to learn how to be present, because I've been a fan so long. I was a fan — I'm still a fan. But like, it's different when you working in the space, like how we talking even with the interviews.

Sanni Brown 

That's how I feel right here. It's different when I'm watching y'all as a consumer of your content, and then I'm sitting here because — I feel like I'm a peer, but I'm a fan though!

BdotCroc 

Yeah, it's a mixture.

Sanni Brown 

Thank you for saying that. That's why I be fanning about y'all. I've been consuming, I'm watching your career, and it's explosive to watch you go from this to, wow, where you're at.

BdotCroc 

I'm shook too. I'm fanning out over me too, a lot of the times. Like, what? Bdot, what you doing out here, man?

Sanni Brown 

Highs and lows of the season?

BdotCroc 

I mean, we can just get straight to the low. The low is definitely just not being in the finals, feeling like things didn't go in the way that we desired, getting that injury bug closer to the end of the season. We were able to fight through most of the season. And adversity, I mean, we've dealt with just challenging calls since last year, I feel like, even when we were in the finals. So it's just been tough to see a group of women that work so hard, that are so dedicated and there for each other, even with Napheesa Collier being like the superstar, she's not there, as if "I'm the superstar," like she's there amongst her peers, just really being a leader, motivating. And then you got Cheryl Reeve, who's an amazing head coach that obviously very passionate about her players, she's gonna speak her mind. She's always been that way. That's something I've always admired about her, is like she speaks up and says the things that people, you know, whether they want to hear it or not, she's gonna say it. And then you got the StudBudz who went crazy this season with their live stream, like Courtney and T, they're phenomenal. There's so many players that had so many amazing things happen this year. So like, the lows is the lows. But all in all, when we did our end of year celebration, it was really dope just to watch them celebrate. A lot of them have been working hard to be where they're at, and to now be together, celebrating those highs together. Alanna Smith, doing Defensive Player of the Year, Phee being up for MVP, you got most wins in they history, and you coming from some legendary players like Rebekkah, Lindsay, Seimone, Maya, like it's so many names you could say that are powerhouses. So I feel like they're a new generation that's coming and going to continue to develop. The high was just being in the energy, being able to interview them, to being able to see them in passing when they're going out for warm ups, or being able to connect with the front office and getting opportunities to do different things within the organization. I got to do a voice over for one of the commercials this year, that was super amazing. They be fanning and supportive of me, and I be feeling the same way about them. So it's all been just like, divine. That's the best way to explain it.

Bdot in action

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Sanni Brown 

I want to jump right into this question, what can you tell young people who are striving for their dreams, who are looking at you and they're at the beginning, they're just kind of like having the dream, but they're scared — what can you tell them about these losses? Because you're around superstars, and even they lose. And I'm sure you've taken losses. What can you tell the next generation about how to deal with these losses, man?

BdotCroc 

Man, it's really not how you win. It's really how you lose.

Sanni Brown 

Hold that — we're gonna say that for the next break. We are in studio with BdotCroc, dropping gems, giving us the little deets, the little sweets on Minnesota Lynx as In-Arena Host, we will be right back. I'm just so excited. Thank you so much for being here.

BdotCroc  

Thanks for having me.

Sanni Brown 

We are back in studio with BdotCroc. It is The Message, Carbon Sound, Music for Life. BdotCroc hails from the North Side of Minneapolis, artist, MC, entrepreneur, community leader, In-Arena Host of the Minnesota Lynx. And we are in part two, and I want to finish up this conversation about it's how you lose that matters —

BdotCroc 

Yeah, it's not how you win, it's how you lose.

Sanni Brown 

Exactly. And you are an In-Arena Host for a superstar basketball team. Your earlier career, you started out in music, and now you are among these superstars, because you are a superstar. It's the energy, you are amongst the kings and queens. But what did you mean when you say it's how you handle the loss? Because we could just give that to the young folks and move away, dig deeper into that. What do you mean?

BdotCroc 

Everybody's happy when you're winning. Everybody feels good. You may still see some things you want to work on in the win, but in the win, you think that's the overall, like, you got it. Where a loss really teaches you where you don't have it, where you need to grow, where you want to push. And the loss, really, to me, is sometimes bigger than the win because it makes you make adjustments. The only way to really lose is to quit. You can lose a game, you can lose a job, but as long as you don't lose yourself in the midst of the loss, then there's really no loss. You'll gain something. And once you have that experience of what's your attitude like, what's your heart posture when you take a loss, when things don't go your way, how do you readjust? How do you treat the people around you? Because it's also easy to be friendly to everybody when you're winning, but what's your spirit and what's your soul when you're not winning, when you're losing? So I just say to young people, get comfortable in the uncomfortable. Get comfortable in the losses, because they will teach you more than wins ever will, for sure.

Sanni Brown 

There's information in the losses.

BdotCroc  

So much information.

Sanni Brown 

I tell everybody that comes through here, they was telling me no so bad in radio, oh my God. They were telling me no so bad. I was begging these people to let me in radio. And I had to humble myself and be like, "Well, are you sure you're sounding your best?" When people hear me sound my best, baby, it's because I was at my worst. And I had to listen to myself and really dig in. I really want to hone in for the next generation there is information in the losses. And if you can just slow down and get out your feelings and your pride, you'll be able to see that. What type of losses did you have that almost didn't give us the Bdot that we got today?

BdotCroc  

Man. I mean, you name it, from being in hip-hop and being a young girl growing up in the 90s and then coming into the 2000s and how things kind of shifted in regards to representation of women in the industry. There were many times where I was like — I mean, I've been rapping since I was eight years old. I stopped —

Sanni Brown 

And you can rap! I be trying not to play your stuff all the time.

BdotCroc 

I really found my voice in music, that's what I learned. Music really tried to steal my voice at one point, I feel like. Where it wanted me to talk about a certain thing, be about a certain thing, look a certain way. It really challenged my identity. So I feel like as I grew stronger in myself, I grew stronger in my MCing, which I believe the power of the tongue, the power of words. When you on this mic, whatever way in which you're on it, if you're delivering news content, if you're delivering music, if you're delivering just a good time and hosting, your words hold weight. They carry vibrations. They can connect with people. They can cause help, or they can cause harm.

Sanni Brown 

Shameless plug, that's why the name of the show is called (The) Message!

BdotCroc 

Because it's in the message! You gotta make sure you carrying it. So for me, I don't look at them as losses now, but I just feel like, for myself, a lot of the losses I felt like I was taking was like, I was losing things that didn't belong to me. Whether that's certain, like I said, personalities, or things of that nature. I lost the idea that I was supposed to be a certain way, or have a certain way, especially being a hip-hop artist in Minnesota, born and raised from here, proud to be from here, not ever wanting to act like I was from anywhere else, people wanted me to lose that. A lot of people wanted me to claim a different coast, because I sound like, they'd say, "Oh, you can rap rap. You must be from the East Coast."

Sanni Brown 

That's interesting you said that, you don't. That's why you stick out to me.

BdotCroc 

Yeah? We got a sound here. We just got to trust it. That's the one thing I love about being from the Midwest and being from Minnesota, you get a chance to figure out what you should sound like. What you want to sound like. You don't got an expectation to sound — because, I mean, who you gonna sound like, Prince? That's one of the greatest to ever do it. You can't mimic greatness.

Sanni Brown 

You ain't gonna really bubble above "Oh, we like it."

BdotCroc 

Yeah. "That's cool."

Sanni Brown 

That's a very Minnesota response, "Yeah, that's cool."

BdotCroc 

"That's nice." Minnesota nice.

Sanni Brown 

I like that. I am a performer, so I've performed, and if you cool, they'll give you an applaud. But if you cool, they will watch you, but then they'll explode at the end. And speaking of that, I want to get to the kids. You said you've been working with kids for two decades. On purpose?

BdotCroc 

On purpose. Now that comes from my grandmother for sure. Like working in community, I just at a very young age, got exposed probably during high school, and then once I graduated high school, to community work and what that felt like, and what it felt like to really be a part of a community in a way, where I was like, I already go to North Community High School, people have so much pride about being a Polar, you got people that no matter what year you graduated, alumni presence is heavy. So that was one lens of community. And then being from the North Side of Minneapolis, the kids I would work with in community, I would see them or their parents out, whether that's at the grocery store, at an event, or wherever I was. So it really just built this passion and love to see those young people that I grew up around flourish in whatever ways, whether that was working with them in the Beats & Rhymes program through the YMCA, or being a mentor and supporting them in they life journeys, whether we talking about relationships or we talking about where they want to be in regards to work, or if they want to do music, I started to notice the level of influence I had, and that made me hone in. That shaped Bdot. That is Bdot. The kids in my community made Bdot.  I've always been Brynne forever, but they're the reason that I am who I am. It's funny because the kids or my community, the Minnesota Lynx is getting exposed to Bdot now, in that sense, but like you said, how you've even watched me. A lot of people are like, "What? How you don't know about Bdot?? Bdot been a superstar, y'all late." But I love that, because I'm also showing young people that you can continue to evolve as you get older. Like, I remember being young and thinking I had to be successful or doing this by this point, or I don't want it. It's like no, you'll love success at whatever time it meets you. Continue to grow, continue to evolve. Every single thing I've done has led me to exactly where I am right now. So for me, even with the young people, that's why I laugh, when we would be in the arena and it was loud, that was one of my favorite days, was the days where the kids came during the summer from their camps, and it's like, that's cheers and chants. That's all I know in regards to call and response and getting young people's energy turned up, like they give you what you need to give them. So that's why I love that work, and doing that work is so intentional, because I got inspired by people around me, but a lot of times also by things I seen. So I know how important it is for them to see me in these spaces, so they can see themselves. Because I'm reachable, they know they could reach out to me, talk to me, DM me, so that was the biggest thing. When I posted that I got the In-Arena position, my kids went crazy.

Sanni Brown 

I'm not gonna lie, I felt like I won.

BdotCroc 

That's what everybody said, they like, "Man, it felt like we won." And I'm like, "We did! Shoot." That's what it is, it is a win for everybody. I love that. I love that it doesn't feel like it's just me.

Sanni Brown 

Bdot, I'm crying. Your energy is so dope. Your energy, your story, it's dope. Thank you for being you. You gave me a story to look at. You are so dope. I've worked with kids for 25 years, and I know the type of spirit you gotta have to work with kids. The thing that I love about kids so much is they filter. They tell you the truth. And so the fact that the kids love you man, and the community love you man, and it's all love from me.

BdotCroc  

I feel like the kids let you know you close to God, because they the closest to God in my opinion. Like you said, they ain't got no reason to lie, they gonna be like, "That's whack. I don't like that."

Sanni Brown 

"Why you do that? Ew your breath stink." They'll tell you straight up.

BdotCroc 

Straight, no filter. But I love that.

Sanni Brown 

The way they are, the way they pull up, can see the way young people are around you.

BdotCroc 

I've been doing it so long now, one of my first young people I ever worked with, he is now married with children, I'm his child's God mom, and that to me is exactly what it's about. The real-life relationships, that means more than any accolade that I could ever receive. Even with the In-Arena position, the way the fans message me and tell me I make them feel, and how they can feel my spirit. I love that, it means the most to me. It's cool to be on TV, and all of those things are super amazing. I'm super grateful. But nothing is more fulfilling than knowing that you're impacting people in a way that makes them feel good.

Sanni Brown 

Well, you a hero out here. You know who you remind me of? MC Lyte.

BdotCroc 

Oh man, I've been getting that since a really little kid. I remember when I was young, and they was telling me about MC Lyte, and I've had the opportunity to meet her, I've had the opportunity to perform with her. And it's God, that's the only way I could say it, I look at those opportunities even hearing things like that, having pioneers like that, that were doing this way before me, and were willing to give back in the culture in different ways. That's what I desire to continue to do, is push it, pay it forward.

Sanni Brown 

This is what it's about, young people. This is what it's about. These are the real superheroes, no joke, man. I'm so glad you had the time. I got to ask. I have to ask this. Bdot found an early mentor in her uncle, Kelly Crockett, AKA rapper Kel-C, he performed locally with the IRM Crew. Bdot, let us know what that's about. Because I know the IRM Crew, that's hip-hop here. That's hip-hop history, baby.

BdotCroc 

That's my uncle. I grew up rapping in the basement. That's how I learned how to rap, was my uncle Kel. Him, his son, and my cousin, John, J hard, we all was just in the basement mimicking him, he was really punchy rapper. If you know my uncle, Kel, you know his personality, you know his charisma, you know his performance. He was my introduction to hip-hop. My favorite rapper was my uncle as a kid. I didn't start noticing and listening to other rappers until down the line, so I didn't grow up with, like, "Oh, this is my influence. This is who I'm going after." It was really off the cuff. And my uncle was a super big freestyler. Een being able to go off the top in the arena where you might have to go off script, you have to think of something, I got all that from him. So shoutout, my uncle Kel-C. That's my heart right there.

Sanni Brown 

And for my audience, I say off the top. You said off the top, that's the difference between freestyling and off the top. So that's why you can rap. You got hip-hop royalty!

BdotCroc  

That's in my DNA right there.

Sanni Brown 

Okay well, young folks, go check our IRM Crew. That's why I had to pause and throw that in before we leave, out of hip-hop history, out of North Minneapolis, out of respect. I'm from Chicago, but I respect here big time. Bdot, I thank you so much. You are so amazing. Your vibe speaks for itself. When they say your energy introduces you, baby! Okay, you the poster child for that. It is so dope watching you. We really feel like we winning when you out there. So just know what you really represent us. And thank you so much for being in here. Where you gonna be? What you gonna be doing?

BdotCroc  

You might catch me in another arena. I don't know if I can announce where yet, but I'm definitely gonna be popping out in other places. I'm excited.

Sanni Brown 

I'm so excited for you! Oh my goodness. Okay, so I'm gonna stalk you some more. Thank you, Bdot!

BdotCroc  

Thanks for having me, too. I appreciate y'all reaching out. I appreciate y'all giving me this platform and this opportunity. However I can continue to support y'all let me know, thank you. I really appreciate all the people — MPR did a great story on me in regards to when I got the position and came in, and all that makes a huge difference. Like, I've been knowing about MPR, hearing about MPR, even connecting with John at other avenues. I love to see everybody walking in they purpose full circle. Let's keep building, y'all. That's how we keep that's how we keep this thing strong.

Sanni Brown 

I love that, Bdot. Thank you so much.

BdotCroc 

Thank you.

XINA stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about her IRON X EP, opening up for Duckwrth in Chicago, XINAVERSE, and more.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni Brown 

It is The Message, Carbon Sound, Music for Life. We are in music class. I've been talking about this all week; I'm so excited. In studio, I have a piece of the local scene that I have personally been following myself. She is independent, this is why this is so exciting, independent, self-produced, multidisciplinary artist based in Minneapolis. And if you ask her what she does, she'll say "arts and crafts." And baby, we need to know exactly what that is about. Ladies and gentlemen of the Carbon Sound family, welcome XINA. Welcome!

XINA 

Thank you, good to be here.

Sanni Brown 

It's good for you to be here! It's a trip to be sitting and talking to you. I've always consumed all of your music and your performances, and it's just really dope to be sitting in studio with you.

XINA 

Likewise! I get to see all the dope stuff you're doing on the scene, and I feel blessed to be in your presence.

Sanni Brown 

Thank you. Let's get to it! So straight out the gate, you are an independent artist.

XINA 

100%.

Sanni Brown 

And this is exciting to me, because I grew up in a time where independent artists, that's like foreign words. And so to watch you, because I knew you from being in radio, and your voice is what caught me. You have an amazing, soulful, you caught my ear with your voice. What are the pros and cons of being an independent artist? Because we're seeing the successful side — excuse me, I see the successful side. Duckwrth sees the successful side. So what are the pros and cons to being an independent artist, self-produced, multidisciplinary?

XINA 

Well, I will say I am independent in a lot of different senses. I think when we hear independent artists, it's like, you're not signed to a label. That's kind of like baseline what that is an indicator of. I am just very independent in every aspect of my creative process as well.

Sanni Brown 

So that's what you mean, independent artist?

XINA 

Yeah, I mean, both, right? Everything is done in-house. Everything is done mostly with just me, or where I can source assistance. Pros and cons though, I think being able to truly be at the center of your creative vision. I've honestly never been signed to a label, so I can't really speak to what that experience is like, but from what I hear, there can be a lot of different sort of hats in the ring, a lot of different checks and balances. Then you're dealing with bureaucracy, you're dealing with ownership, stuff like that. I've just always been very empowered to have ownership, both creatively and on the business side of what I do. And honestly, these days, I feel like it's kind of the only way, from what I hear.

Sanni Brown 

So what I'm hearing is you're independent in the sense of, no, you don't have a label, but you're also independent in the creative process. You don't have a bunch of people telling you what to do. Is that really important to you, or did you just fall into that and it's working for you? Like, was that the intention at the beginning?

XINA 

That's always just kind of been my natural inclination. I think everybody is so different, but for me, I spent a lot of time just honing my authenticity and really finding my voice. And for me, I had to do that by myself. There's so much outside influence that we might not even be aware that we are taking in and emulating. So for me, it was and still is very much a solitary practice. That's how I just maintain my authenticity, I think.

Sanni Brown 

I see you mention that a lot on your posts on social media, and your most recent project is called IRON X. I had to sit with that for a little bit. I like how you connect all of your projects to you, like XINAVERSE is that series of performances that you've done with a variety of artists around the Twin Cities, but IRON X, is the spiritual awakening of the self-identified. That's the work that you've been promoting on IG lately, right?

XINA 

Yes.

Sanni Brown 

Okay so here is where I stand. I feel like, when I first heard you, I heard like feminine, like angelic. I felt like I felt that in the, was it PUSH and PULL or something like that project?

XINA 

Throwback.

Sanni Brown  

Yeah! And that's where I first heard of you. And I was like, "Oh, this is cool." Could you help me understand that, was it two different projects?

XINA 

That was sort of a two part album. So yeah, there was sort of PUSH and PULL; it was kind of like a lighter side and a darker side.

Sanni Brown 

I love that you do that! I can so clearly see you play with things that contrast. That's what intrigues me about IRON X, because from what I remember, it seemed like really angelic and deep soul with the PUSH and PULL. And then this is, like intense and dark, so the what's the transition between the two? Why start this out this way? What was happening here, and then what changed?

XINA 

You clocked that, I love it. I love it. So I still have a lot of music that is unreleased, and the variety, the range of the textures that I like to explore is vast. So this project, IRON X, is a collection of songs that carry that, like, grungy, kind of sinister intensity.

Sanni Brown 

It reminds me of alternative music from the 90s.

XINA 

Cool.

Sanni Brown 

That's the vibe that I get from it. Is that on purpose, or this is just you? That's what it sounds like.

XINA 

That's just me. There's obviously influence inherently in what I do, so I can't necessarily say that that's not part of it.

Sanni Brown 

That's what I'm hearing.

XINA  

I'm just a part of a long lineage of music, right? But I also focus a lot on just trying to pull from within, versus —

Sanni Brown 

Why is that so important to you?

XINA 

I just often witness a lot of artists who I don't get a sense of authenticity from, and I think that art is — the act of expression, we'll say, is always a good thing. I think it's a healthy practice for anyone who's creatively inclined, express yourself, do that, right? But it is also very oversaturated in some sense, and I'm not ever trying to say like anybody shouldn't engage with creating music or expressing themselves, but a lot of sh*t doesn't move me.

Sanni Brown 

Nah I feel you.

XINA 

To be real.

Sanni Brown 

To be real. Heard. Felt.

XINA 

It really is when someone is truly pulling at what is authentically them. I don't know, it creates a sense of vulnerability. You can recognize somebody's idiosyncrasies, and that's when it really resonates for me. When people have taken the time to really find what their voice is. Because, for example, if we're just talking about singing, a lot of people are really good singers, right? And good singers can often sing like other singers very well, and you're singing along to the music you grew up listening to, whatever the case. And you're sort of emulating these runs or whatever. And it's like, my voice has changed a lot over the years, and that has just been because of the excavation and the discovery of what is my true, authentic voice. Cutting out the, you know.

Sanni Brown 

And I know there's a story back there, that sounds like that's a story back there.

XINA 

It's been a journey, you know?

Sanni Brown 

Is that what you poured into IRON X?

XINA 

Certainly. I think IRON X is a really good example of what I've discovered along that journey. It does have range, even though it is sort of a certain corner of my artistic sensibilities, you can still get a sense of like, you get the sort of industrial, almost like grungy hip hop beats. You also get some of the orchestral, softer soundscapes and stuff like that. But yeah, it feels very true to me, through and through.

Sanni Brown 

It feels like it's true, what you're putting into it. So I'm gonna pause here, because I can talk to you for the next hour. And I want you to know I'm using my inside voice, because I heard that you don't like all that loud noise.

XINA 

Oh, you sweet. Honestly, when it's one-on-one, like, I can take it. I do get overstimulated, but that's with like crowds. You're funny.

Sanni Brown 

I've got my notes on the people that I like, and that's what I was wondering, did you mean like, when you're performing, or did you mean just in general, you're not up for the loud noises?

XINA 

When I'm performing, I like to be loud, and I like to be quiet. I just appreciate dynamic. I don't like to go to a show where the volume stays here the whole time. A lot of people, I think, feel like, just make the music as loud as it can be, and that's gonna sound good. And that's not it for me.

Sanni Brown 

I love how you put these pieces of XINA that we can't see, into everything that you do. I want to dig into that on this next break. We gotta take a break, but I want to dig into that because I could tell that you are literally pulling from everything of you and putting it into everything. You can just tell. I mean, that's the frequency that I'm picking up. So we'll be right back on The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life, I have XINA. And if you feel these feels, this is because this is the vibes that she got. We're gonna dig more into IRON X and the meaning of the spiritual awakening you were talking about that's connected to that. Coming up on The Message, Carbon Sound, Music for Life. Don't go nowhere.

Sanni Brown 

We are in studio with XINA, independent, self-produced, multidisciplinary artist in Minneapolis, and she brought the vibes today, baby. I love it, the looks and the vibes. Thank you so much for sharing time with us. Now in the last break, if you missed it, we just got to know XINA, just the recipe that she's putting into her artwork, which caught the eye of Duckwrth. What's that about? Because I thought he just took — I'm so used to Minnesota musicians being great, and then just somebody from outside town just snatch y'all up. So I just assumed that was your moment. He snatched you up. I mean, it looked like it! But then I got the details, and it was like, no, you opened up for him in Chicago. That's insane. How was that like? How did that even happen?

XINA  

It was great. He's on tour right now, The All American Freak Show, which just resonated with me. I love being freaky and creepy and all that. So he was putting out a call for artists in various cities to come and open for him. And a bunch of people had tagged me under that post. And I was like, "You know what? There's certainly an alignment there, right?" And it worked out. I went to Chicago, opened that show. It was great. His audience was very ready to receive the weirdness.

Sanni Brown 

I mean, it's Duckwrth, I would presume they'd have the open mind for that.

XINA 

Certainly. Yeah, great crowd. It was really a positive experience, very fleeting, though. I was only on stage for 20 minutes, which, the last show I did was my IRON X release show, and my set was damn near an hour and a half, which was crazy. So yeah, it went very quickly, but it was really positive. And Duckwrth is so sweet and really a down-to-earth genuine person, and I feel like that's a great connection now, and hope to keep it alive. We'll see what comes of it in the future.

Sanni Brown 

The thing that sticks out for me the most is in the last break you talk so much about pulling, excavating is the word you used, from within yourself, and I really want, because my audience is young, it's the next generation. I don't want young people to miss the moment of how you've been authentic, and how you pulling from this and you creating this artwork, and how all of that aligned from you pulling from within yourself. And so I always like to highlight that, because that shows how powerful this inner world is and how it can shape our outer world. I just wanted to pause on that part first, but now, before we even get into IRON X, please tell me about XINAVERSE, because for me that was a whirlwind, because it was just you were here, and then you were here, and then you were here, so could you tell me about XINAVERSE?

XINA 

XINAVERSE, a series of parties that I've thrown, highlighting Black femme musicians on the scene, transitioning into an after party with pole dancers, highlighting the sex work scene, and really wanting to mostly create a space where pole dancers can do their thing, and it's safe and it's fun and it's not competitive. There's a pole dance scene here that, there are opportunities to perform, but a lot of it is competitive or maybe it's not at all like a Black and Brown space, or it's, I don't know. I wasn't really feeling personally pulled to the pole dance community, so I wanted to create my own space where I felt like dancers could express and be empowered. And, oh, it's been so much fun. It's been so fun every time. I kind of took a little break from them, but I definitely want to have another soon.

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Sanni Brown 

I love it. I appreciate that as a musician, and you're a dancer too. And so I'm a dancer, so to hear you creating space, I've actually gone to dance practices that were supposed to be safe spaces, and the person turned it into a competitive space. I will never forget this, it shifted the room so oddly. And so that's why that stuck out to me, that you said you created a space where it's not competitive, that's a different dancing space. So I want to say thank you for that.

XINA  

That's always my intention. You know, things kind of go wherever, but I think it has been successful so far, and I'm hoping to keep that container a very positive space.

Sanni Brown 

Yeah, I love that. Now, IRON X, I love how you put you into everything. Why IRON X? What is it? Because I think iron, I think hard. Why? What does the iron signify?

XINA  

I would love to tell you. So IRON X, first of all, is a pole move. It's the crazy one where it's like, you're sideways, I do it a lot. So there's the alignment there with just the X, which I use a lot in my movement. That's the name of the pole move. It's also the sonic palette of the project is very metallic. It feels very industrial. There was a tool that I used to create a lot of those sounds to sort of keep the identity really cohesive, but it just felt metallic to me. There's a lot of references to metals within the lyrical content, and obviously the production. So yeah, that's kind of the gist of the title IRON X. It fits with the brand and all that.

Sanni Brown 

What is the message? These are irons, these are metals, what is your message? Because what I'm hearing, because you say, "The spiritual awakening of the self-identified." What does that mean? And does that connect to the IRON X, to the metals?

XINA 

In a perhaps non specific way, yes. The project in itself is sort of a reflection of the self-discovery that I've been speaking on, and a lot of it was written at a time when I was really discovering myself, discovering where my boundaries are, discovering where other people might have had me f*cked up. And so the project is about empowerment, and I hope when people listen to it, they feel empowered. I sort of channel this darker feminine energy that feels very supported, very sturdy, very metallic, if you will, so that's the gist of it.

Sanni Brown 

Oh, I like that. No, I like that because, again, you said I clocked it, so I must've got it right. It was softness that I gathered from your previous, and then this hardness. As a woman, we're just told to be soft, and sometimes you don't find that metal inside you until you push back, like you said, people had you messed up — ah, I love it. I'm going through something similar. I think in this world, as a woman, I don't know that you're allowed to be aggressive, or you're allowed to be angry, or "I don't understand this," you're not allowed. And so I like that, and I like that you are detailing that, and that you are being vulnerable to show that. Because again, I think social media makes us think every transition, everything has to be pretty and growing in the spiritual self — that ain't pretty at all. It's ugly, it's so ugly.

XINA 

And there's so many different flavors that —

Sanni Brown 

That's not even right to call it ugly. I think a proper, fair word is messy. Because we're humans, and we've got like you said, when we sing, we're pulling from all of these different things. When we walk, everything we do, we're pulling. And then you got to stop and go, "Which one of these is mine? How much of this is me?" And so what I'm gathering from this is, this is what this is, but for XINA.

XINA  

Yeah. Honestly, I'm remembering now, there was a larger album that sort of encapsulated this energy that I'd made years ago, and overall it felt a little bit too dark, and I didn't want to put too much of that energy into the world. I wanted to really pick the things that felt like they weren't driven by anger necessarily, but more like self-awareness and empowerment. So those are the tunes that I stuck with, and for example, "PURE POTENTIALITY,” that's one of my favorite tunes on the EP. And pure potentiality is a spiritual concept, Deepak Chopra's seven spiritual laws of success, if you're familiar. It's perhaps the first one of those laws, but it's about manifestation. And that in particular I love, because it is a very high vibrational song lyrically, and the intention that I infuse into it is very much that of manifestation, being tapped into this unlimited source energy, but it's in this package of a really sexy, sort of grungy sonic palette, which I appreciate, because a lot of high vibrational music I feel like is kind of corny. So I wanted to still feel sexy and grungy, but have a message that is aligned with my spiritual intention if that makes sense. So I love that track in particular.

Sanni Brown 

I do like that one, that one stuck out to me. There is so many different flavors, like you said, it's your voice, and how you put everything around your voice is really something, because when I hear you, it's just like pure, like honey, your voice is deep and soulful, and then you've got all these different, like contrasting sounds around it, and yet it works.

XINA 

I love juxtaposition, which you already, you clocked that.

Sanni Brown 

I have to say, you do it really well. You package it really well, and you present it really well. And I do think that's why I just I can't stop taking my eyes off you, and I can't stop listening to you. I love the work you do. Anything that we need to know, anything that us XINA fans — I didn't ask this, but audience, if you ever run into XINA and you ask, what does she do, she says, "Arts and crafts." You're the arts and crafts CEO. At first, I was like, "I don't like that," because to me, I feel like you do so much, but I respect it.

XINA 

It's kind of tongue in cheek. I do a little bit everything, and I'm very DIY, like, I use safety pins a lot of the time. It's part of the accessories that I like to pull from, and it just signifies really, sort of patching things together in a really sort of, sometimes a chaotic way. But I don't know, it's an umbrella term, I'm an artist before I am a musician, before I'm a dancer, whatever. It's just any medium that I can get my hands on. So it's a little bit satirical, but arts and crafts, you know what I mean?

Sanni Brown 

I think I picked up on the satirical first. I think I was like, "I don't like that. I feel like she's not encompassing everything that she does."

XINA 

But it does though, you know?

Sanni Brown 

I was like, "Okay, I rock with it, I see."

XINA 

And it's light hearted. I don't wanna be too serious.

Sanni Brown 

I'm glad you said that, because sometimes, like how you said the high vibrational stuff can be corny, sometimes when you be like, "What you do?" "Oh, I'm a rapper, dancer, ..." like dude, you can't sum that up? You ain't got no pitch?

XINA 

I don't wanna go through the list. We don't need to talk about me like that. You can find out, arts and crafts.

Sanni Brown 

And you're right, it gives people — that's what I like about you. You have a "It's here if you need it." I like that about you. "It's arts and crafts, if you want to know more, come find me, baby." And where can we find you, XINA? Because I stalk you, so my channels is different.

XINA 

Well, you can definitely find me on Instagram, for better or for worse. I do have a website, xinaverse.com, there's gonna be more offerings there. Gonna be also using YouTube a lot more, I love visual arts as well. Been getting a lot into film and cinema, graphic work.

Sanni Brown 

I saw a promo you did. You definitely have an eye for the visual.

XINA 

Yeah, so I've been shooting a lot and editing and directing for a very long time, but more recently, getting into the behind the camera and the color grading and the storytelling in that way. So excited to continue to integrate that with the music and keep sharing.

Sanni Brown 

And I'm excited to see what you do with it, because you definitely have a good eye. I appreciate you so much for coming in.

XINA 

Thank you for having me.

Sanni Brown 

You are such a great vibe.

XINA 

We done already? That was so quick, I could yap for days.

Sanni Brown  

I be trying to tell people, it goes fast around here, man. But thank you so much, XINA, thank you, thank you. And I'll be in your comment section, trust.

XINA 

Okay, I'll meet you there.

Sanni Brown 

Thank you! It's The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. Thank you again, XINA.

XINA 

Thank you, Sanni.

Marvelous and Skye from The Cherry Pit sat down with Carbon Sound’s host Sanni and talked about all that The Cherry Pit has been up to — from their “Bible Study” open jam sessions that take place almost every Wednesday at Berlin, to upcoming events that continue to prioritize intimacy and connection.

Sanni

It's The Message, Carbon Sound, Music for Life. We have another interview for y'all, yay! I have no idea who these people are (laughs) so I'm excited. I am brand new with everybody, but Marvelous and Skye from The Cherry Pit. Marvelous is a composer, pianist, vocalist, organizer and more, and The Cherry Pit is a band, and a creative organization based in Minneapolis. Welcome, The Cherry Pit. How are you doing the band life and creative organization? It's always interesting to me when you have people that are a band, I feel like that's a bag of chaos in and of itself, and then you're a creative organization that's also serving creatives in the Twin Cities. Tell us about The Cherry Pit first. Let's do that first, one thing at a time.

Marvelous 

Yeah, so for many creative people, there is not the optimal space to express yourself in a way that is received in a human way. And when I was 17, 18, I felt that way very strongly, and I was expressing myself alone in practice rooms, not even really showing my friends. And then I found that I had this nasty basement that I could turn into a beautiful space, and so I revamped it and started hosting jam sessions every week in Madison, Wisconsin. And so Cherry Pit started there, and moved here to the Twin Cities in 2020, and has always been grounded by jam sessions based in improvisation.

Sanni

Wow. Ooh, that's delicious. When I first came to Minnesota, I joined, it was like a community organization where they danced and where creatives can go. And I remember that was when I was introduced to jam sessions. So I'm super interested in — where did you even learn about jam sessions? How did you know that's a thing? Or do you feel like you just naturally gravitated to that?

Marvelous 

Well, I think any musician that learns from the library of Black American music is going to be drawn towards improvisation in general. I mean, it's all birthed out of jazz. Improv is the cornerstone of jazz music. And so I grew up playing a lot of jazz and soul and funk music, and you need to be able to improvise to play that stuff. So even if you learn your core parts to a tune, a point is going to come that you need to express yourself for a solo, or someone's going to sing something very pointedly to you, or a saxophone is going to play something to you, and you need to be able to respond just like a conversation.

Sanni 

Is that the human part you're talking about? Because you started out and said that creatives don't have a space to create and express themselves, and it be received in a human way. That human improv, the "Hey, they're playing this, I should do this." Is that the human part you're talking about?

Skye 

The audience comes in a little bit, comes with that humanness. It's like making sure that there's a space where people have the right mind to listen in to it. You'll go to a bar and listen to music, and that's a much different experience listening to music than in a huge concert hall, or even a stadium. And so the phrase that we've coined and started using is a traveling house show, so hopefully you feel like you're in the living room. And that comes in a little bit more when we get to customize the space.

Sanni

I like that, because I feel like everybody, even if you can't sing, y'all done sang in y'all living room. I like that; that's very relatable. Everybody has sang in their living room or kitchen at some point. Even if you can't sing when you're a kid, you just sing the commercials, it's just that home feel. Why was that important to have the home feel with it?

Skye 

Well, like Leo said, it really was birthed from his basement. So we really just kind of like drew on what naturally came from that space.

Sanni

So you have a session, a jam session, called "Bible Study?" Okay, so what's this about? Because I feel like some people hear Bible study and they run away.

Marvelous 

We're not studying scripture in the jazz club, that's not what's going on. So Bible study generally takes place on Wednesday evenings at churches. That came to my attention from a friend who used to be in Bible study. And we like that title because we're honing our craft in the middle of the week, because jam sessions are so often about improving yourself, and about intergenerational improvisation, where you get folks that are in different points in their career, or are multi genre, like some of them are jazz musicians, some of them are not. And so you get them in the same place, it's like a training ground. In the same way that Bible study on Wednesdays at the church is like a training ground for your spirituality.

Sanni

Iron sharpening iron, but in a musical sense.

Marvelous 

Yeah, and then on the weekend, the weekend for us is generally Friday or Saturday night, and for the church going folks it's Sunday morning. But on the weekend, that's when you get to have your — you get to melt. That's the catharsis. So middle of the week, sharpening it up, weekend, expression.

Sanni

Wow. Because it's not Bible study, do you feel like it kind of throws people off at all? I feel like it would grab my attention.

Skye 

I think the throw off is part of the fun.

Sanni

Okay, all right, so a little artistic — some sass in that. I like that, a little danger there. I get that. So I got more questions about where you are going with this improv house show. It's interesting, because I'm from Chicago, when I hear house. I think of house music. So a different type of house for those who grew up around hearing that.

Skye 

House as a home.

Sanni

As a home. Luther Vandross, this house is not a home — (laughs). In studio, Carbon Sound Music for Life, right here we have Marvelous and Skye from The Cherry Pit. And they are not only a band, but they're also a creative organization that provides spaces for human expression to be received as well as expressed. And so I have questions about where y'all taking this show, because you're supposed to take the show on the road (laughs), I wanna know where y'all going with this. So we'll be right back with The Cherry Pit on The Message Carbon Sound Music for Life.

It's The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. We have a in studio interview. I love when the Minnesota music scene comes in, because then you guys get to understand why I be geeking out. So today we have The Cherry Pit with Marvelous and Skye, and so far, we have gotten to how The Cherry Pit started. You guys started out with jam sessions in your home in Wisconsin, and then that has now elevated, evolved into a traveling house show. My question, so, for Bible study, is that a part of the traveling house show, or was that just something that started at the beginning? Has that elevated and grown with your jam sessions, that's a part of the house show?

Marvelous 

In spirit, for sure. I mean, what we're referencing with the traveling house show is that when we throw larger events, we decorate those spaces with carpets, couches, blankets, lamps. So you'll go to somewhere like Icehouse or Green Room or just some unmarked location, and you'll show up and you'll see a living room set essentially, and so the band will be up on stage. But our hope through designing the space in that way, on the stage and off the stage, is that you feel like you're in the living room of the artists, and it creates a sense of intimacy.

Sanni

Yeah, that's kind of cool. It made me think of — I might be telling my age here. It made me think of a show called Big Comfy Couch. For those who know, this is the vibe that I'm getting from this show. What are some of your earliest experiences with music that led to these jam sessions?

Skye 

I mean, I think Leo could probably speak to that. I mostly am a part of The Cherry Pit through a visual art, art direction, set design, organizational aspect. I'd came to a couple of those first basement shows, and aside from Leo, I didn't really know anybody, but the ability for you to sit down and feel like you're just cozy, and be able to ignore the other shit and focus on the music, is I think why I was like, "Oh, this is something special."

Sanni

That's one of my favorite things about going out, because I'm the always the entertainer, so when I go out, I like to just be able to sit and not worry about that. That's a very important part of the audience experience. So okay, you bring the visual elements to it, you're giving us The Big Comfy Couch (laughs). And then musically, where did you start out before the jam sessions started?

Marvelous 

Well, I think that there's an underlying desire in any artistic community for folks to gather in a sort of chopping ground, sort of space where you don't need to worry about messing up. And that was the case in Madison, that continues to be the case in Minneapolis, which was a beautiful relief and an inspiration for me. I thought that I was gonna lay Cherry Pit to rest in Madison, these jam sessions. And then when I got to Minneapolis, I'm like, "Let's just throw a house party jam session." And then it was very immediately noticeable that there was a need here in the Twin Cities for jams. And over the last couple years, I've seen a lot of new jam spaces pop up. And I think that just goes to show that it's just as necessary as having regular community conversations, because that's really what it is. When it's improvisational, there's not this intense structure around it. We're not playing classical music, and so there really, truly does need to be both. That's what it takes for a healthy ecosystem. It's a place for you to mess around with your art, and have fun and communicate, and then a space to do that with words.

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Sanni

It's interesting that you say that, because a lot of that creation, it is in private. Like you said at the beginning, you would create things in private, and you're allowing this creative process to be in a public space. And that does I feel like offer an experience for creatives. Because even me, when I'm creating, I want to be somewhere private. Missy Elliot, I heard she doesn't let anybody in on her creative process. So I know for some people, that's what they require, but for other people, like you said, I just love that safe vibe of "It's okay. That's a part of the process." And it's inspiring to other artists or people who internally are like "I really want to make music, but I'm scared to mess up." So it's cool to see that you're seeing the feedback as you're starting to see more — do you feel intimidated by that in any way? Or does that warm your heart that you're seeing more jam sessions?

Marvelous 

I think it's all part of the same mission. If I saw other bands that were playing rip offs of my original songs, I would feel intimidated and frustrated. I mean, I don't have a copyright on musical conversation. Whenever I see a different space, I'm like "Okay, we're all on the same team." I've talked to some of those organizing folks, and I've tried to give them my two cents about what can make a space like that successful, but I'm by no means in charge, or really facilitating.

Skye 

There really just needs to be more spaces for artists in general. There can't be there can't be enough places, we don't want to compete for that.

Sanni

It's such an abundant mindset, and you can tell how that's pouring over into these jam sessions. It's an abundance mindset that you're like, "As long as we're getting the mission done." What is the next thing that you want to accomplish — I guess with your band too, but also with the organization, the back piece of that. What are you trying to accomplish? What's on the calendar?

Skye 

We've got a crowded horizon.

Marvelous 

There are more, but I'm seeing a main trifecta popping into my brain, I'm seeing these jams are the beating heart of what we have to offer in the Twin Cities. And so we're at the Berlin almost every Wednesday, hosting our jam sessions and providing space there. And beyond that, we're gonna have bigger shows coming up every couple months, these are in addition to the Berlin. These are going to be in some larger venues.

Skye 

So this fall, late fall, maybe early winter, we're gonna do a show called “Unreleased.” And the main premise is you'll show up, and you're not allowed to record on your phone. You're not allowed to take pictures. We'll have no audio recording. We'll have no photographers. You just gotta be there in person all night. We'll have some hired painters and artists to capture it through other mediums, so you can still take something away. Leo has been cooking up a list of people to hopefully take part, musicians to take part in it, and they'll play, hopefully, an array of unreleased music for us. Knowing that it won't leave the room.

Sanni 

I like that. When you said you provide a space — wow. No, because I have unreleased music, and I want people to listen.

Skye 

But you don't want it out there before you're ready.

Sanni 

Yeah! That's slick. What inspired that? Is it just a part of this mission?

Skye 

I think it's a part of the overall mission of creating in person events that are valuable. And recently, political events have made me so much more cognizant of the need for in person community. And like digital spaces are getting crowded, and so I'm like, "Let's create a space where we force ourselves to all really just be there for it."

Sanni

And just be human. Anything that allows for the messiness — not like the intentional toxic messiness, but just in our natural state. I love that. There's something very healing about hearing about that. So no dates or anything on it?

Skye 

No date yet. We're scouting out locations right now. We're getting some of those marketing materials slowly in place.

Sanni

Are you talking to any artists right now? You can't say?

Marvelous 

No, I don't wanna say (all laugh).

Sanni

Okay, I get it. It's unreleased.

Marvelous 

And then the third thing, I think we just finished it yesterday, which is a concert film called “Intimate Inquiry,” which is a show that we did in late 2023. It's multi-cam, and there's skits in between the songs. It's really nice. And so we're gonna drop that and show it in a theater in late July.

Sanni

Okay, so if I am super excited listening to this, and I want to know, how do I keep up with all of these different things that you're doing? So how do we keep up with you? How do we keep up with all of this information?

Skye 

We have an Instagram which we'll keep posting there forever, but slowly phasing out because that algorithm does not show our followers what we post. So we have a free Patreon where it's just like a newsletter kind of feed, and that's probably the best place to check us out.

Sanni

Absolutely. All of this involves improv, it's terrible that I went backwards (laughs). But before we leave, why is improv so important to all of this?

Marvelous 

Well, I was once told that improvisation is just composition sped up and composition is improvisation slowed down. So, composition meaning you have — it's like writing a book, or you have a score, and you're writing out each individual note very deliberately, very slowly. You try it, you go back and you edit, and it's a long process. And improvisation is really not this mysterious thing that folks make it out to be. It really is just an expression of all the things that you've collected throughout your life. So if I've learned 100 songs, then when I go to improvise something, with no plan, it's very likely that I'll be representing fragments of maybe 25 of those songs. Or just maybe a melody that you heard a woman sing when you were walking down the street, or one of those commercials you were talking about, or like the theme for a TV show. We're sponges, and we have our immediate memory, but we also have our deeper and subconscious memories. And so improvisation allows for us to draw from all of our life experiences and all of our musical experiences in the immediate. And so the reason that I'm trying to promote just the overall mission of improvisation and improvisers is because I feel like there's too much emphasis on composition in general.

Sanni

Especially with social media. Everything's crafted and cultivated. So you want to be right at that moment when the human is just existing and just flowing. By the way, I love improv (laughs). But I know improv in the world of acting, I guess I freestyle every day off the dome. I know that's called improv, but for some reason it doesn't feel like improv. So I love the art of improv. You described that so beautifully. I'm so glad that we have that in an interview. Leo, thank you so much for joining us.

Marvelous 

Certainly, yes.

Sanni

Skye, thank you so much for joining us.

Skye 

Thank you so much.

Sanni

The Cherry Pit, everybody. Make sure you go check them out. And hey, I want to know about that unreleased when we get off the mic (laughs). Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you.

Marvelous 

Certainly. Thank you, Sanni.

Carbon Sound recently caught up with Minnesota’s own Dizzy Fae and talked about her journey of self-love and discovery over the last few years, her upcoming debut album, and a whole lot more.

Dizzy will be performing at Walker Art Center’s ‘After Hours: Summer Party’ on Friday, July 25.

John

Hello, this is John from Carbon Sound. I have a familiar face to some in Minnesota in with me today, I have Dizzy Fae. Thank you so much for being here today.

Dizzy Fae

Thank you so much for having me, my home!

John

Absolutely! Welcome. How does it feel to be back in downtown St. Paul and then just the Twin Cities overall?

Dizzy Fae

Yeah, it's pretty surreal. Like, looking out the window right now, I can probably see my high school, SPCPA. It's pretty surreal. It's nice to come back and always just be full of love when I'm here.

John

How often are you back nowadays?

Dizzy Fae

Well, I have family, so I try to come back a few times a year if I can. But last year I was super broke, so I didn't see no one for like, maybe two years max. But yeah, I like to make it here as much as I can, see my sisters, my grandma.

John

So family is definitely a part of the essentials when coming back here. Is there anything else you feel like you have to do once you're back here? Saw a run at Bde.

Dizzy Fae

Oh, yes! Bde Maka Ska! I used to run there like, every day 2020, I was running every morning. I had this running buddy, and we would just go at it, like, 8am and it was kind of cute to run around it! And then I saw Pimento is right there, and I'm like, "how did you get there??" So it's cool to see stuff like that happen, where it's just different things switch up around the city, things get added, things move. But it's such a beautiful run. I suggest everyone, if they're a runner or just a walker, check it out.

John

Beautiful area, Uptown Minneapolis. Don't miss out.

Dizzy Fae

I agree. Where should I take my manager for some food?

John

I was actually gonna ask you that — because you mentioned Pimento, and I wasn't sure if there's essentials you have to come back and eat once you're here. I'll put the question on you (laughs).

Dizzy Fae

That is a good question. I am so bad with finding places. It's just not my thing. I'm not a cook, I hope I have a chef. But I kind of want to try some really nice places out, let me know if you have any suggestions, because I'm completely sober, and something that's been really cool about that is I get high off food now.

John

Absolutely, oh my gosh!

Dizzy Fae

Like foodgasms are a real thing. It's actually kind of insane. It's usually high-quality food, but I'm excited to dive into that more. And it's cool to maybe do that in my city, but it would be nice to go to a place where — because I'm of age now, where people that I know are probably working at restaurants. I might catch somebody, you know, like —

John

Is that a good thing?

Dizzy Fae

It's so fire. Last time I came here was for a Klituation show, and I went to this place downtown St. Paul, and the people there knew me, and I got free dinner two times in a row, and I was like, "This my city!!"

John

There's gotta be some perks to coming back (laughs).

Dizzy Fae

No for real! I'm like, this is super cool. But it's really nice to catch up with people around the city. So I always hope I see people that I know, or anyone that — this is like the one place I will sit and have a conversation with somebody. I don't know if that answered the question. I'm also open to new things. There's been so many things that have came about since 2020. I can see that things aren't as boarded up anymore, which is good to see.

John

Is there anything you view differently from that time and then now? You mentioned things not being boarded up as much, but is there anything you view differently about Minnesota? Is there any perspective change?

Dizzy Fae

I would say the city just feels a little more intentional, which is really nice. Because it's always kind of felt like that, it's very calm here, very chill, like, "What's up, dude?" But I just feel like after 2020 there's been such a shift — I feel like internally in people, and not just in the city, but just internally, and then also in the city, I guess. And so coming back here, it just feels — the energy just feels more intentional here. And there's just, again, there's so many new places. So I feel like it's blossoming in a really cool way. It's just so special to me. I think what changes and constantly evolves is how special Minnesota is to me. Every time I come back, I'm like, "My city!"

John

There's always gonna be that charm or that twinkle.

Dizzy Fae

Yeah, I would say that's the biggest thing that I noticed change in me, but in the city itself, it's constantly changing and evolving. I'm just trying to keep up. I got some homies here, I got good people here, so they keep me updated.

John

100%, and I feel like some frequent and consistent collaborators as well, whether it's producer Psymun, Alec Ness, kind of all those in the mix. I could talk all day about Minnesota stuff, and we will get back to it at one point, because I do have some more questions, but I do want to talk about your music overall, and the new stuff that's been coming out, the new songs. And what I have at the top of this paper is universe builder, because I just feel like there's a lot that comes within your creative style, this realm that you're able to build for you and your fans, which is really cool, and so I kind of want to dissect that a little bit, and we can start with "My Baby Loves Me." I'm curious about the ideation of that song, the cover art, you holding your mini me, how does that all come about for you?

Dizzy Fae

I love that. I love dissecting this world. I really have for a long time built a world, and I kind of want to take you through the journey of it real quick. It's pretty fun to talk about, but it kind of helps with all the projects I've put and where it's going. And I'll probably say this a few times, because I think it helps anybody at any time, get on the bandwagon, but understand me a little bit more. I'm a very visual thinker, and so I think of like, okay, boom — Alice in Wonderland. I'm in a field, it's beautiful, there's flowers everywhere. And then I'm reading my book, my cat is probably doing his thing, climbing up the tree. I'm like, "Get out of the tree!" I'm very in my element. And that is Free Form, my first mixtape. That is just me, free flowing, free forming, just kind of being who I am, what I am, in this space. And then it starts to get a little cold, and I'm like, "Oh, I should probably bundle up, figure out my next move. I can't lay here forever." And so on that journey of just being like, "Alright, my consciousness is starting to need a plan. Something is happening." That's my next mixtape, NO GMO. So I'm kind of going, I see this river. I like to say chocolate, because I like to add a little pizzazz. And so I'm like, "Let me get on this river." I get on a boat that's going down the river, and there's a map in it. And I'm like, "Oh! Okay." I hold the map up, that's my EP Antenna. So now I'm like, "Okay, I have directions, an antenna. I have something calling to me to do what I'm supposed to do. I felt it earlier from NO GMO, and I was building from Free Form." So I'm like, moving the map around, upside down, looking at it. I'm like, okay, North West, South —  okay, period. I'm like, "I should probably get off the river, because the map is telling me that." I get off the river, I continue to follow the map. And then the map takes me to this door, and I look down, and the place mat in front of the door says, "Are We There Yet?" And that's my last EP. Because now it's kind of at a point where like, "Okay, well, this is the map takes me, takes me right here, like, are we there yet? I think we might be!" So I look inside the keyhole. Hence, "My Baby Loves Me" at the beginning, when I started doing content, you saw a keyhole, then it zoomed in, and I look in, I'm like, "Okay! I see some in there." I open up the door, and that is going to be my next project. So that's gonna be my debut album.

John

Wow. They need you in writers’ rooms for shows. You just took me on that journey, and that's so crazy, because how much of that is planned out? Or did it kind of show itself over time? And you mentioned this map. How do you know to trust the map? What is that map?

Dizzy Fae

It started forming around Antenna, when I thought about the map idea. Because if you think about the journey itself, I didn't really fully develop that I was on a mission until Antenna. Free Form, I was just kind of doing my thing. That's when I was just getting in the studio. My first session ever was — I was like playing around with covers, but my first session ever was in a room with Psymun, Corbin, and Sen 09. And Psymun and Sen 09, I don't know if he still goes by Sen 09, great producer, but they produced Johnny Bravo. That wasn't where I did that then, I was so — imagine being in that room. I was like, "Where do I fit?"

John 

Where did you fit?

Dizzy Fae

We just kind of vibed out, just hung out. And we all just kind of stayed friends to this day. So it's really cool, like Psymun and Corbin, but yeah, I just was free forming. I was just going into the studio doing my thing. Minnesota is a very big band place, so it's like being a solo artist — every solo artist that I know is really their own and in their own pocket. So you really have to find your own pocket while you're here. And so just to go back on your question on "My Baby Loves Me," I've constantly been on this journey of discovery and self-love and wanting to make my platform and who I am a outreach to anybody else that's in need of that, or experiencing that, and not feeling alone in a big world where it's like you're having a solo experience in connection to others.

John

Something I'm curious about that seemed like it kept coming up, and I'm curious how you can fit this into the equation, because I know it's important, is the idea of breaking foundation and building it back up.

Dizzy Fae

I realized I was breaking foundation and building it up right after my mom passed. I think anyone that has grieved a very close loss, especially with a parent, it's like there's something that does naturally break down. For me, it was like this specific understanding and acceptance that had to take place at the same time. Everything I knew wasn't the same no more. I really did break down my entire foundation to the T. I mean, I've never been so sad in my entire life. That was the saddest thing I've ever gone through. But it really put me in a place where it's like, even if I was depressed before or anything else, it was like nothing has ever been that sad in my entire life. So I was able to identify where that came from, which allowed me to see everything so clearly. So I really broke down my foundations and my values, and I really, at one point, maybe like a month after, I was like, "Okay, I just need to make sure I'm drinking water, I'm eating healthy food, and I'm there for my sisters." And honestly, that was the only thing that mattered for me. Thank God that I'm in alignment, I think, to what I'm supposed to be doing, and spiritually guided. Because I was making music prior to that, there were like, bullets in the chamber, so I didn't feel like I needed to catch up, or "Oh, I need to have music ready." I had some stuff. I was like, "Okay, now I can just grieve probably the hardest part." But grieving’s so — it's not linear. It's something that's very — happens randomly, but that was probably the hardest time of my grieving point, which had me break down everything, like, "What do I need to do to survive?" And then "What's the type of person I want to be?" I don't want this to make me a mean person, I don't want to be a big, hard shell. I want to just continue to live in My Divine Feminine.

John 

When did the art and creativity feel like it started to creep back in and form?

Dizzy Fae

I would say it started to come back towards April 2022, or was it 2021? It was whenever I met Lido, the producer, that's when I feel like my creativity kind of came back. I always tell him this, but he's such an angel in my life. He's the first producer I started working with right after my mom passed, and he randomly reached out to me, if you know Lido, he's just kind of that guy. So for him to randomly reach out to me, it was just like — and I didn't have anything really going on. And we started working, and I was like, "Wow, this is nuts.” Our chemistry is just so beautiful. And so I think that's where it kind of came back. And then I made, Are We There Yet? He produced a lot of those songs, in addition to other producers I love working with, and that project has to do with the seven stages of grief. But I needed to put that out. I was like, "I need to put that out." I just have such an interesting outlook on grieving that I want to share with the world.

John 

That through line of love, throughout your whole music and just your creative process, I can see that there and then with Are We There Yet? throwing in this idea of grief, I was just kind of curious to ask you, were there intersections between grieving romantic relationships and the loss of your mom? Because at certain times, it's interesting with heartbreak songs, because you can almost interpret it in different ways. And I wasn't sure if one was more centered around that loss, or was it more around romantic relationships?

Dizzy Fae

Yeah, relationships have been a real thing in my life that I've just had to navigate, even just relationship with myself. I think to coexist is like — you not only are coexisting with people, you're coexisting with yourself, you're coexisting with your mind. I can't remember the name of the book right now, but he talks about how your mind is your inner roommate, like we're constantly coexisting. I grew up in a pretty toxic household, so I feel like me and my mom started having a great relationship towards her last days here, like her last few months — so grateful for that, oh my God. I thank God all the time for that. But I would say 2021, was a crazy year for me with relationships. I had my first love heartbreak, like I was in love with this person for the first time, and I ended up being like, "I gotta live my dream out. I gotta move to LA. I gotta do it." That was just a natural separation. And then around the summer, I was nannying for this lady, and the guy she was with actually pulled out a shotgun on me. So relationship with trust, that was a whole thing. I had to leave same day, I was like, "This is nuts." And then that year, the following few months my mom passed — I also wanted to, like, kms a few months prior to my mom passing, and I feel like her passing was a moment of the universe being like "Girl, not yet." Dark humor, but yeah. So then I had some friendships that kind of abruptly ended right after my mom passed, just a little unfortunate. But relationships, I feel like, had a lot to do with grieving, and I mean, that project in general. I have this song called "Talk About It," where I was just like, I think after my mom passed, I just was like, this stuff is so night and day, like we really are born to die and anyone can pass at any moment, we should talk about it. We're awake now, let's talk about it. And I just had so many epiphanies and realizations after my mom passed that I was like, I don't want to look back and be like — I mean, I just saw who was around her deathbed, and I was like, "I gotta figure this out." Whatever it is, I gotta be love. Because if I'm not love, I don't know, I just need to figure out how to be love.

John

And just you telling me that story, I feel like I can see your eye looking through that keyhole and giving yourself that love and whoever else might need it. That's really powerful, and just one more note on your mom. I'm just curious, if you're willing to share, day in and day out, what's the main thing you keep with you from her?

Dizzy Fae

Well, you know what's crazy is, I want to do a TED talk one day on grief, but I talk to her every day. She's been such a big point of my guidance, I actually feel like she's with me more now than she's ever been. And that process has been really beautiful for me. And I have some crazy stories, I have crazy stories where she really does talk to me and she's really here, she's really guiding me, protecting me. She's with me every day, I literally talk to her every day.

John

Wow. So you have her in that sense, and then you have, what I just love, I'm very nostalgic person, so you have the memories. You have the Ne-Yo and Trey Songz concert —

Dizzy Fae

What?? (Both laugh) That was so Nardwuar of you, that was so good. Yeah, that was my first concert. She really took us, and then Trey Songz ripped his shirt in three. Gave it to left, right and middle. I was like, "Okay, got it." Ne-Yo's such a good performer, though. That is so funny. And she gave me my siblings, she gave me my little sister, that's like, my best friend. She left me with a lot of great things for sure. That is so funny.

John

Well, speaking of performances, I know releasing music and coming to this point in your artistic career, you're just really excited to put some excited to put stuff out, excited to perform. What are you excited most about?

Dizzy Fae

I'm just excited to perform again. I haven't performed since the Klituation, and then prior to that, it's been years. And I feel like I'm in such a place right now where this album, I think, is gonna change my entire life. I think it's gonna have people understand me more. I just hope that it gets to the right people, that's all I really care about. And I hope that people can gain experience from it, their own experiences, have their own memories to take with them, and I just hope that it helps people along the journey. Real life things are really nice. It's nice to post, it's nice to make content — I actually have fun making content. Doing what I have to do is fun, love that. I'm so excited to meet fans, and I'm so excited to see Dizzerts. When I was at the Klituation, people were screaming "Body Move." I had to tell my DJ to, like, hold on. And it was like a mixed race of people, you didn't just see — I was speechless. I was like, "How am I speechless and I'm supposed to perform right now?" It was so cool, and I'm just so excited to see what Dizzerts look like, my fan base. I'm just excited to perform, that's where I started. I went on tour with Lizzo when I only had two songs out, so I had to make a whole repertoire of music that's never gonna be out — so whoever saw it, you saw it. But, yeah, performing, that's where I feel really at home.

John 

First and foremost, wanted to say I love that you call Dizzy fans Dizzerts.

Dizzy Fae

It's cute right? They're the sweetest, literally.

John

And that reminds me of another play on words, and just you talking about performances, I'm curious when the next Dizzyland is going to be.

Dizzy Fae

I would like to look at Dizzyland as a part of Dizzy World, like it's a section of the world, and then Dizzy World is a part of Dizzy Universe. So Dizzyland, it will happen again, but it's just in a matter of time. I had a really cool lineup at that time, and I think I just got to perform a little bit more myself, and go on tour, and do all these things, but Dizzyland, it's not even gone or forgotten. I was gonna say "It might be gone, but it's not forgotten." It's just part of the universe. So it'll happen again for sure.

John 

While I have you, I wanted to go back to Minnesota, and I'm just really curious how and when an artist knows when to make certain moves in their career, and just you being here and starting your career here and then moving out to LA, when did that feel like it was going to be a good fit?

Dizzy Fae

I really wish I had some advice for that. I would say, if I could give any advice, in knowing when the right time is the right time, it's never the right time. And that's what makes it the right time. You really have to just leap and pray that there's a net. I didn't know — I told you I was in love! And then the universe said, "Get your booty to LA, cause we got some stuff to do." And LA opened so many doors for me. It wasn't like I moved to LA and everything started happening. That year my mom passed, that year the shotgun was pulled on me, that year my heart was broken from the person I thought I was in love with. You just really got to keep leaping and as time goes on, it will all make sense. And I think that's what's so cool about explaining that process, that journey from NO GMO to now, because that's really how it goes. You really just gotta have faith in whatever you believe in, and keep it pushing. There's really not a right time, though, and that is the right time.

John 

Fair enough. That makes total sense, and knowing that you've kind of had a hand in both of these pots and scenes, I'm just curious if you can see or know of any differences between the two, LA versus Minnesota?

Dizzy Fae

Oh my God, such a big difference. I had a moment where I got homesick because there's just not enough nature in LA. I was like, "Do y'all like green or what??" And it's congested there. Love LA down, the weather is cool, I got some cool friends, some cool things, cool food, all that. But it's a little saturated in LA. There's a lot of people that move there. It's a lot of energy. Minnesota, I plan on buying a house here at some point, you can really breathe here. You can really be like, "Ahh. I think I'll go home." (Both laugh) In LA, you're like "Ahh —

John

"Smog."

Dizzy Fae

Yeah, "Ahh, smog. Ahh Pollution." But LA is cool. I don't think you should move to LA if you're looking for something. I think you move to LA when you already have something. If you move to LA and you looking for something, life is gonna show you all the things that you actually have to look for. And it's gonna be within yourself. But I feel like if you move there, you already have a plan. It's already happening. It would be super beneficial for you.

John

Before we leave, do you have any words of advice to our Carbon Sound listeners out there?

Dizzy Fae

Yeah, I would say to always be stubborn with the vision, but be flexible with the plan.

John

Wonderful.

Dizzy Fae

It's definitely helped me a lot. I've noticed if I just know exactly what I'm doing, it never really works out. But if I know what I'm looking forward to — I've never had a plan that worked out exactly how it's supposed to work out.

John

How did you come to that?

Dizzy Fae

Well, you know what? I saw a quote on Instagram, and I was like, "This eats!" But I started actually applying it to my life, and I noticed that that's actually how my life, and I'm sure probably others, it really works like that. The goal is to sell out stadiums. Do I know how I'm about to get there? I don't know. Are y'all about see me at Xcel? Yeah. Do I know when? No.

John

Right, so the vision is to get there.

Dizzy Fae

The vision is to get there, and how it's gonna get there, I'm really not sure.

John

Does that ever feel unnerving? I'm just a person who likes to be in control as much as possible.

Dizzy Fae

Me too, me too. I'm always like — my manager, he over there, he's trying not say too much (laughs). I'm very like, "I gotta do it. This is how it's gotta be." Then I'm like, "Actually, I'm okay. Everything's okay. Plan just shifted a little bit, but it probably is always better. I saw this photo where it was like, "Your plan" and it had one rose, and it said, "God's Plan" and it had like, hundreds of roses. And I really think that's how it goes. Everything has always turned out better than I've expected. And sometimes it is pretty crazy to be like, "Oh, my goal is to sell out arenas and stadiums." But I don't know, is it that crazy? We'll have to use this clip for when it happens.

John

We'll keep it for sure. We'll look archive it and we'll trust that vision.

Dizzy Fae

And I told myself I was gonna stop smoking till I'm 45, so it needs to happen before I'm 45.

John

How are we feeling about that?

Dizzy Fae

You know, I think it's doable. I think it can happen, anything can happen. I saw SZA play at a show called "The F***ing Best Show Ever." It was when Z came out, it was very EP time. And to see where she is now, I'm like, "Oh." There's just certain artists I've seen early on and then just seeing it blossom, it can really happen. I mean, it's really up to the people. That part ain't even up to me. I'm like, "If they don't like me, I'm not gonna sell out loud stadiums and arenas." But if they digging it, and I can help others with it, I'm sure that it'll be plentiful of people and flowers in the audience. It's gonna be really crazy that we had this moment, if that really — I mean, WHEN it really happens.

John

When that happens, that is gonna be really exciting. When your upcoming album comes out that's gonna be very exciting. Any more details you can offer there?

Dizzy Fae

What's happening right now is a story is unfolding, and this is a really cool time in my career. This project, it being my debut album, is really embodying a lot of parts of me. I want to say the title, but I can't, I can't right now, I want to so bad! But it's really good, it's really beautiful. I have a lot of parts on the project, maybe like two parts, but I have a few songs where, a verse has been completely freestyled — I want to say the name, but I can't! It's so good, though. I was really guided with this project, and everything feels in place. I have a great team, I have great people around me, the music is great. I just want people to know that they're early with me. Even though I've been doing this stuff for a second, we're so early.

John

Happy and honored to be a part of this early journey, and so excited to see where things go from here.

Dizzy Fae

Yes! Thank you so much, I appreciate it.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about their work as a Jerome Hill Artist Fellow, applying for grants as an artist, their upcoming project Manic Pixie Dream Boi, and more.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni Brown 

It's The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. Okay, I'm gonna just flat out say it. I used to stalk our next guest (laughs). I used to stalk them at the beginning of my radio career because I used to see locally, people would speak on them all the time. And so number one, if I sound like I'm fanned out, don't be judging me Carbon Sound audience. In studio today, we have a composer, a multi-instrumentalist, photographer, organizer and current Jerome Foundation Artist Hill Fellowship grant awardee, among other awards. Taylor Ngiri Seaberg, welcome to Carbon Sound. Welcome to The Message, wow.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

Sanni Brown 

Wow. First of all, I believe I have discovered a healthy kind of stalking, okay (laughs). Several of the artists that I used to be like, "Wow —" and you guys end up in the studio. You're one of them. I remember seeing you earlier in my radio career, you were doing a lot of rock — I just gotta get the fan girl stuff out the way. I heard so much about you, I just didn't know, and I think it was a lot of rock stuff. And so I think I, at the time, may have been a little scared to go there, because I was in radio brain and rock stations wasn't hiring me at the time. But you would show up on my feed, I would see you being reported on. And so first of all, I know who you is, thank you for taking the time and coming to The Message. It is so dope you are here, thank you.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Thank you for having me. That really warms my heart, because even you just saying being Black, you couldn't — rock radio stations, it was harder to get access. I feel like that was my whole beginning, starting playing in a punk rock band with all Black people.

Sanni Brown 

Can you tell us, just for new people — can you give your pitch? Because it's a lot.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

My name is Taylor Ngiri Seaberg, I'm a gender nonbinary, trans, Kenyan American multi-instrumentalist. I play bass guitar, electric guitar, piano, and then I played flute for eight years in concert band. I am a concert band geek nerd. Before it was cool to be a musician, I was being a little nerd in the corner playing. And I also played for the church, which I feel like is a lot of Black people's background to music is playing in the church. So I played in the church for like 12 years, something like that. And so yeah, music is like my main love. But then I also love photography, and I did a lot of protest photography during the tragedy that was the murder of George Floyd in 2020. And I lived on 35th and Chicago, so I lived right across from Pillsbury House Theatre. So for me, that was my literal backyard and neighborhood. So I did a lot of curating and community organizing with Powderhorn Porch Fest and Pillsbury House Theatre. Community organizing has also been very important to me, because I believe that art should be used as a medium for political change. Especially because I'm in love with like Rage Against the Machine and all these rock bands that were always like, "Testify" and "I won't do what you tell me." Just like Public Enemy, down with the man — that really shaped my art from a young age.

Sanni Brown 

So what attracted you to that? Because I've always liked rock. I've always, I've always been I loved when Janet would drop some — I love when artists take that rock. I love that. I've always loved rock. When did you as a Black person — I was gonna say, when did you feel comfortable like outwardly expressing that? Because I feel like, if you didn't outwardly express like R&B, soul like that, and it was rock — I feel like rock was secret. My mama liked rock, so it was in the house, but as soon as I went outside, among other people — when did you really be like, "I like this. I'm digging this." When did that first hit, your love for rock?

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

So my mom actually really loved rock music, even though she was a Christian, very church woman, for sure. My mom was still into like, System of a Down, and we would listen to "Chop suey!" and my mom would actually love these lyrics. And then I got my mom into "Flyleaf," because I told her Flyleaf was a Christian metal band (laughs). And my mom's like, feeling the spirit within her (laughs).

Sanni Brown 

Nah, that's dope. Y'all sharing music, that's beautiful.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

But it was actually my older brother — my older brother, Donovan. I come from a musically talented family, so my mom went to Juilliard for piano, she's also a flutist, and she also is a mezzo-soprano opera singer. So when she had kids, she knew these kids are going to do music. And I think because of that, music was deeply embedded in every area of my life from a young age. And I also got introduced to a whole kaleidoscope of music, because I lived in a family where everybody was doing music and had different tastes. I remember we lived in England when I was in middle school, and I think I was in seventh grade, so I was around like, 12 or 13, and my brother played in a punk rock band called Poser at the time. And they actually got to play at Abbey Road Studio, that's the studio where the Beatles — that's the iconic UK studio. And he was only 15, 16 years old, and so I looked up to him. He played Triple Rock Social Club before, you know, RIP Triple Rock Social Club closed down, which was a huge punk epicenter in Minneapolis. When I saw him play, I was obsessed. And my brother was a shredder, he would be playing Killswitch Engage, Pierce the Veil, and all these heavy metal bands that I ended up getting into because of him. I would listen to him practice, and he would post videos of him doing metal music, and so it kind of made sense that I would follow right after my brother.

Sanni Brown 

That's so beautiful. So he obviously goes to the shows.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Yeah, we used to play in a band called People Will Dance together. The very first band I was ever in was People Will Dance with him.

Sanni Brown 

How was he when you got into the band?

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

He always had high expectations. I'd be like, how do you do this? And he'd be like, "Oh, you just do it like this." And I'd be like, "What??" Like his fingers would move so fast. That's why it's like some musicians just cannot teach. They're amazing people, and my brother was one of them (laughs). We actually used to instrument swap. So I would play the guitar and sing, and he would play the bass, or I would play the bass and sing and he would play the guitar. So because we both grew up playing multiple instruments, we had this versatility. And playing with somebody for over 20 years of your life — well, I guess at that point it was like over 15, 16 years of my life, more accurately. Playing with him, it was so intuitive, and also he was able to tell me stylistically, "Oh, we should do it like this or like that" from both lenses of being a bass player and a guitar player. We were in a trio with my drummer, Jay Weiler, at the time, and I've been loving trios ever since. I think trios — guitar, bass, and drums is such a nice trio. At least for me, because it's like the melody, the melodicness of the guitar, which you could also swap out for a keys player, and then the bass and the drums. But lately, I've been really into just drum and bass, and singing and rapping while playing the bass. That's what I've been into now, is getting the melodicness of the bass, because there's so much melody behind bass lines. People just think it's root notes, but no, there's a whole spectrum of how to play the bass, funk Bass, slap bass.

Sanni Brown 

I have so many questions about bass (laughs), because I know, just from listening as a consumer, the party is in the bass, for me. Even if you're at a place and they're doing sound check, and they do something with the music and they take the bass out, that's where the party is, man.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

It's the meat.

Sanni Brown 

It's the meat, man. Unless we're talking Mediterranean (both laugh), that's supposed to be the flavor, it's food and music here on The Message.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

True, it's no seasoning.

Sanni Brown 

Right (laughs). But I have so many questions about bass. How are you swapping? So what instrument is your brother playing?

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

So he's either playing the guitar, or he's playing the bass. And the thing is, I write sheet music and I write chord charts — you can actually play a chord on the guitar, on a six string, you can play the same type of chord on the bass, as a triad, for instance, like just the root note, the third, and the fifth or the seventh, or the ninth.

Sanni Brown 

Wait! You're going too deep (laughs).

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

This is music theory (laughs). If you think of a chord, right? Like a C major chord, you can add all the spicy elements, like a sharp ninth or a suspended or whatever. But the root, the key root of a triad, would be that C chord would be the root.

Sanni Brown 

For outside music people, that's homebase.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

So knowing how to get back to the root, that's the main beginning, opening part. And so if you think about it like that, even if I'm doing a super complicated chord on the guitar, I can always transpose it to the root and to the third and to the fifth. So for like a C major, it would be C, it would be E, it would be G. So in those three notes, I can just rock those. Or if I know the scale, I can rock any of those notes and the notes in the C scale.

Sanni Brown 

Do you know anything about piano?

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Yeah, piano is what I started off on.

Sanni Brown 

Okay, so then this makes sense, what you're talking about. For all the musicians, it's what gives us harmonies, it's what gives us melodies. I love that.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

But yeah, I'm a music nerd to the core. I love analyzing the structure of music, and I think that's why I love composing. I love composing different parts for different people. I've seriously been thinking about being a ghost writer, because I make a lot of material, but I don't always want to perform it or sing over it or rap over it, and that's why I've gotten into making beats. So I got into making beats, like two and a half years ago, started using Ableton, and now I make music with a lot of people who are featured on my upcoming album.

Sanni Brown 

You just said something delicious. You just said something about how you want to help people.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Yeah, I want to help produce people.

Sanni Brown 

This is my question. What you were just talking about, on the chord progression. Are you adding that into the stuff that you're making?

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Yeah, I record all the instrumentation myself. So I do all the bass guitar, all the electric guitar. I use Guitar Rig, which is a very expensive plug in, but it's good because it models amp sounds without you needing to buy an amp or mic and amp. So basically it's all digital plug ins that are like mirroring mics, also guitar effects, like delay, like distortion. So I can program all of this, and a lot of that is what I have recorded on songs I put out on Spotify.

Sanni Brown 

So for everyone's ears outside of this, if you go, "Man, everything sound the same." This is the surgical stuff that needs to happen so that all the beats don't sound the same. This is The Message, Carbon Sound music for life. I am in with Taylor Ngiri Seaberg, and we are getting down to the meat and sauce and juice of music making, instrumentation and musicianship. I have not even got to your accolades, to your awards. But we will be back and we're going to finish this discussion about beat making, because I do think that's a very important conversation right now. So again, it's The Message, Carbon Sound music for life. Don't go no place, especially if you make beats.

Sanni Brown 

It's The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. We straight up talking music theory with Taylor Ngiri Seaberg, composer, multi-instrumentalist, photographer, organizer and current Jerome Foundation Artist Hill Fellowship Grant awardee, and I feel like you've won other awards. You are barred up when it comes to the awards. Taylor told me offline that Taylor had absolutely no intention of working in music. I love stories like that, because something in the wind called you, and you just happened to listen — it was your brother.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Yeah, it was definitely my brother and my mom. I wish I could tell you, we used to play in family talent shows, Black family talent shows. Me and my brother would back up my mom, and that's actually how I got into playing, was backing up my mom on the guitar and doing backup vocals for her. So the reason why I can pick out harmonies vocally really well is because I used to play with my mom and I used to match her voice.

Sanni Brown 

And now you are talking about dissecting rhythm. I take a class, it's called Rhythm and Style, and it's in rap school, it's Pendulum Inc., and that's why what you were talking about was so interesting. For those who just pulled up, Taylor has discussed what brought them into rock, what brought them into their musical career that they offline said they had absolutely no intention of pursuing. You was trying to do that business thing (laughs).

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

I mean, it's important to know music business as an artist, too. I feel like I'm glad that I came from that background before, and I knew how to promote myself, how to make EPKs.

Sanni Brown 

It's really important what you're saying. Because sometimes I see artists and then I just don't see them no more, and so to see you in here, I'm like, "Okay, you did something that worked."

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Yeah, I mean, definitely. When we touch on the grant stuff, I'm more than excited to talk about my introduction to that.

Sanni Brown 

We can touch on the grant, nothing but time and opportunity right here, baby! You have a stellar music career. It's insane. Let us know!

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

That's comforting to hear, because —

Sanni Brown 

Oh! I have a heavy and spicy question. So the name of your next project is Manic Pixie Dream Boi. You are nonbinary. So, okay, you like touching fire.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Oh yeah, and it's Boi, like b-o-i, so it's the queer way of saying boy.

Sanni Brown 

And I love that you're honest, you talk about Black topics, and in the Black community, we say "boy." So my question is, what is the vibe behind that? For me, it feels dangerous.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

So for me, it's a couple of things. The first one is, the reason why I got the grant, the Jerome Foundation Hill Artist Grant, is because I talked about what it was like to have creativity, but be diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Because I have type 1 bipolar. I knew from a young age, but my mom kind of didn't really — obviously being somebody who's part Kenyan, somebody who's part African American, it was very, very hard for her to really grapple with mental illnesses. She didn't believe that — this was back when therapy was not normalized, culturally.

Sanni Brown 

I am a child who was in foster care because my mother had a mental breakdown, because the community doesn't see that as — so I'm a direct effect of how we handle it in our community.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

I'm really heartbroken to hear about that.

Sanni Brown 

I'm here baby, I'm here.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

I feel like I'm glad to be having this open, vulnerable conversation, because I did end up being incarcerated last year because I had a manic episode, and instead of being hospitalized, I was put in jail. And so I actually wrote a book called God's Motel. I actually met an amazing woman of color, a defense attorney, the only woman of color defense attorney in all of Anoka County, her name's Melissa. She runs a free writing program in the Anoka and Hennepin County Jail systems. So she's actually who encouraged me to write my book. She told me there are three main reasons why people are in jail: poverty, mental illness, and addiction. And Black and brown people fit all those types of categories. So that is why the jails are so full when they should be in hospitals. And most of the people I saw there had schizophrenia, had bipolar like me, and it was untreated and it was undiagnosed. I was very fortunate that I did have a psychiatrist. I did get enrolled in state healthcare and all these things, but it was such an inaccessible process until something like that severe happened to me. I literally had to go through that process to get on state insurance, to get on the right medication, and it was very difficult. So I ended up writing about it. I ended up writing about the jail system. And I still have friends from treatment, when I went to treatment, I still have friends from jail. Part of the grant money I want to put towards trans inmates in jail, because being trans in jail is not recognized — your basic human rights are not respected, so of course, how is your gender identity going to be acknowledged? But the main thing that they funded, because they didn't really know about all that, the main thing they funded, though, was me discussing how bipolar has affected my creativity as an artist. Because for a long time, I didn't want to be medicated because I thought it's gonna ruin my creativity. Then I'm going around being manic, not knowing that all through my 20s, I'm experiencing extreme mania that, on one level, is making me super hyper productive because I'm playing all these shows and I'm really successful, right? So because I was high functioning, people are not thinking there's anything wrong with me or that they need to check in with me, so I struggled a lot simultaneously, even while being "successful" with these grants and with gigging a lot, and that's something I wanted to highlight and talk about with the Jerome grant project. You know, we joke around about Kanye, and we're like, "Kanye is crazy" but saying someone's crazy is such a cop out, because there's so much more behind someone's — now we use the term "crashing out." And I love that term because I've been crashing out my whole life just not knowing that's what it was. And sometimes you gotta crash out, sometimes you need to have a mental breakdown, because we live in America, how can you not go a little crazy by everything that's happening, politically and socially? So even that concept of judging people for having mental breakdowns, I'm like, well, you shouldn't, because if you're not having a mental breakdown, part of me is like, are you processing what's really happening?

Sanni Brown 

It is a little scary when everybody's kind of breaking down, and somebody's just looking calm (laughs).

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

I feel like that's the person I'm most scared about, like they're gonna break down in a worse way 20 years from now.

Sanni Brown 

So you produced 90% of this.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

I did. I recorded all my vocals — so I use Ableton Live 12. That's the audio software that I use. I started using it two and a half years ago. Shout out to Toby Ramaswamy, who came over to my house and helped show me how that works (laughs). I like posted on Instagram, "Someone help me! I'm confused." But then once I started actually — I did the whole YouTube college where I looked on YouTube, and was like, "how am I gonna figure it out?"  And I did, and one day it just clicked. One day I looked at Ableton, and I was like, "Wow." And ever since then, I feel like my engineering brain —

Sanni Brown 

Was unlocked.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Yeah, and ever since then, I've been making a beat a day just to practice and get comfortable. And now I have really efficient sessions where I have people in for three hours, and I'll show them a bunch of beats, and if something clicks, I'm like, let's — in an hour, try to —

Sanni Brown 

Please don't skip past that part. Oh, my goodness. You just did like an artistic fountain, like it's in the desert. You said you tried something else, and it unlocked this, and now you're doing beats every day. Please don't skip over that part. You gave yourself what you needed. Please don't skip over that part (laughs).

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

I think about things in groups, right? And even when I was first performing, the way that I used to get booked was I had my loop station pedal, and I would break things down in my brain by like, "Okay, when I'm looping, I want to have a drum and a bass — drum rhythm section here, and then —

Sanni

And for outsiders, loop is like the hook?

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Looping is like looping a sound. So, we've seen videos of like, if you look up Tash Sultana, if you look up Reggie Watts, and Madison McFerrin, I think, too. If you look up all of these artists, you'll see that they use these pedals, this guitar pedal, or bass pedal, or vocal processor that allows you to click a button, and then it will loop a section of a song. So what you have to get good at is, this is manual timing. You can use quantization — quantization is another concept of matching things, AI matching things to the meters. So sync, even if it's off beat, it'll sink it onto the meter, onto the grid. So even back before we had AI AI, that's what you could do, you could quantize. But I was using a effect pedal where you couldn't quantize it. I had to literally count in my head, and then boom, hit the button to stop it and make sure it looped on time. So that's what I used to do. So this is related to how I build beats now, because when I would build the loops, I would think of them as, like, okay, I gotta start with my main melody line. I gotta start with this hook. I gotta play it on the guitar. Then once I've set that loo, now I have to think of the percussion. So maybe I'm beatboxing, maybe I'm playing the bass, and then that's the rhythm section, and then the third piece I want is to be all my vocals so that's how I do the three-part harmony. I always think of things in three-part harmony. Obviously, there can be more than three, but that's how I would do things with the loop pedal. And I started doing that when I was 19, when I was performing like that.

Sanni Brown 

Okay. You were already breaking down beats for your shows.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Yeah, and actually, I got booked by Medium Zach to play the Last of the Record Buyers Showcase in 2019, the last Soundset that happened. So I played at Soundset for the Last of the Record Buyers Showcase, but this was a beat makers showcase. So I told Zach, like, "I don't make beats! I loop stuff manually on a pedal." And he was like, "I want to have you." And everybody else had Ableton Pushes — all these actual producers, like Just Blaze was there. So I learned how to use Logic in two weeks. Literally, before the set, I learned how to use Logic, and that was what got me into making beats in 2019 was Medium Zach kind of thrusting me into this challenge. And then him being like, "Well, can't you bring your loop station battle?" And I'm like, "It's not the same! It takes time to build beats." Sometimes I might build a beat and it might take 10 minutes, and I had literally like, a seven minute set. So I had enough time only for seven minutes, and I knew I needed to build beats beforehand. So I built two beats that later I ended up playing with my band at shows. I ended up playing these two beats, and that's the thing I'll do a lot, is I'll bring these concepts to the band, and the band will just do their own thing with them. So I'll be like, "Okay, I got the bass, I got the guitar, I got this. I kind of want the drums to sound like this." And then I'll bring it to a band, and the band will do their magic. That's how I got into beats was looping first, using a loop station pedal, then Medium Zach inviting me to be on the Last of the Record Buyers Showcase. And then finally, now I use Ableton Live 12 for the last two and a half years, and now I am very comfortable with audio engineering. I've been an audio engineer, too. I used to run sound at Pimento, and so transferring a lot of that knowledge of audio engineering and dynamic processing and EQing, and I learned how to do that.

Sanni Brown 

To create the vibes, basically. It's a very common conversation about having your own sound. I mean, I feel like music heads appreciate that.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

I've had no genre the whole time I've been performing, I feel like I've never stuck to just one genre.

Sanni Brown 

But I think you may be helping people create their authentic sound, and that might be required. We don't want you to sound like one kind of way. You might be changing the game on a producer tip.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

I want more queer people, and women, to sound engineers. There's so many white men that are sound engineers, and honestly, I had a really negative experience through half of my career, through just having horrible — just treating me like I didn't know what I was doing or talking about. Especially when I started playing with an all-Black band. When I started playing with an all-Black band, I had so many — I would ask for basic things. Like, "Can I get a direct input box? Can I get this? Oh, yeah, I do need two microphones, because I have a piano station and a guitar station." And they'd kind of act like I was asking for a lot. Or I'd be like, "Oh, this mix is kind of loud. Can we turn down to this decibel?" And they'd just look at me — but then as soon as we play a set, then they'd be like, "Oh my God!" Their attitude would shift and change after we performed. So from there, I was like, I want to see more women, I want to see more trans people, I want to see more queer people.

Sanni Brown 

That slows up the creativity. It sounds like it hinders creativity.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

You're always in spite of people. You're always living in spite of people, like, "Oh, I'm gonna prove to them that I know what I'm talking about, that I deserve to be on this stage. At first, when I was younger, that's all I was, but now I'm like —

Sanni Brown 

I shouldn't have to do that all the time (laughs).

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

In fact, I shouldn't have to play like a billion shows a week either, because sometimes that's exhausting. And that's what I love about having $20,000 of grant funding every year, because I can do that. I get to chill, and I get to be like, "Alright, I'm gonna pay my collaborators, and then I'm just gonna be in Mexico City for two months."

Sanni Brown 

I love that you did this, because what is the Jerome Foundation Artist Hill Fellowship grant? And you said what it was for, what project it was for.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Yeah, Manic Pixie Dream Boi, my beat tape that I'm coming out with. I'm labeling it a beat tape because I want to show not just the musicianship and what I've been playing in a band for the last seven years, I want to also show that I'm a pretty proficient beat maker, like I can make beats in any genre. So I have house beats, you know, that are like Kaytranada and Channel Tres inspired. "Dealer's Choice" my single that came out in April, that's on Spotify, and that one is like a trap metal beat that's more like Rico Nasty, Denzel Curry, so it's more raw, more like, "I'm aggressive." And then there's like softer, more indie, early SZA, if y'all remember experimental SZA, like, "Warm Winds," before pop SZA. I wanted to show that I can make beats for anyone. I can make boom bap beats, I can make — and some of these beats I have guest features from different Minnesota artists. RZ Shahid, for instance, he's featured on my song, "Reason." And then I have Louie, my friend Louie is gonna be featured on the house beat, he helped me co-produce it. And then rø, she is an amazing Black trans woman, we met basically when we both started coming out as trans. I came out as gender nonbinary in like, 2017, 2018 — or maybe 2016, I don't know. I feel like I've been openly out for like, 10 years.

Sanni

I love that you kind of don't know if it's 2016 or not (laughs).

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

I know! I mean, I've always been gay. But rø and I actually met at a Pizza Luce Block Party show, because she was playing with her band, Static Panic. And then I ended up meeting Keston, who later played in my band, Black Velvet Punks, an all-Black punk rock hip hop group for two and a half years, I played with Keston. rø has taught me sine waves and taught me about audio engineering. And one day I asked her, "Hey, I noticed you have this rotoscope recordings, would you mind helping me mix and master?" I say, I do all the mixing and recording, and she adds the polish. She adds the polish that makes it ready for the radio.

Sanni Brown 

But the mixing, that's the brick building, isn't it?

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Yeah, and I love that, too. I love figuring out bussing, and —

Sanni Brown 

I have to say this, there is so much to you, and there's not enough time on the show. You got to come back. I love your vibe. There's so much — I said it at the beginning of this interview, you have so much to give. I could just tell. Your energy is so full. So I want people to know about this, you want people to know about this. The Jerome Foundation Artist Hill Fellowship grant. What is that? How did you get into that? And is that something that's open to like future artists? So give us the story.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Yeah, I want to say first of all, the Jerome Hill Artist Fellowship grant is one of the only grants that's not affected by the Federal disbursement of grant funding by the Trump administration. And this is important to know, because a lot of art funding, like the NEA grant, the National Endowment Arts grant, is being pulled from artists. And so the fact that they told me this is unrestricted grant funding, which means I can do whatever I want with it. They award you $60,000 over three years. So from 2025 to 2028, I get grant funding every May, 20,000 every year until 2028. And it's mine to do with, I don't need to report on it, I don't need to —whatever. Because I've won the Minnesota State Arts Board Cultural Community Partnership grant, that was very restricted. I had to submit a full report. And I won the Metro Regional Arts Council Next Step Fund grant, which was a $5,000 grant. I've won Foundation for Contemporary Arts grant and Red Bull Arts Entertainment grants. So that's the background of all the grants that I've won. But the first grant I ever won was a Spoken Word VERVE grant for Spoken Word Art back in 2017, that was my first grant that I ever won, and it's thanks to Carolyn Holbrook. Carolyn Holbrook, she is an amazing Black elder who was also my academic advisor for a creative writing class at Hamline University in St. Paul. And when I was in undergrad, she's the one that taught me about grants. Ever since then, I have won probably a grant a year for the last 7 years.

Sanni Brown 

You are barred up when it comes to grants.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

It was Carolyn Holbrook, she literally is the one who introduced me to grants. Most artists don't even know about grants, that's why I'm naming all these grants, because I want people to know, to apply, to know that you can fund your art. Had I not known this, I probably would have never gone to college, to be honest (laughs). But obviously I needed to, to meet Carolyn, but the Jerome Hill Artist Fellowship, it's a three year grant, and it's open every two years. So I applied April last year, and then I was awarded it and found out at the end of this year. Me and Tarek Abdelqader, he's an amazing drummer, him and I are the only musicians selected from Minnesota. So it's between the five boroughs of New York and Minnesota, which I'm like, I don't know how they did that, but 20,000 is way different in Minnesota than it is in New York, and I'm very grateful for that (both laugh). I've been using the grant to do the album, to do the beat tape for Manic Pixie Dream Boi. I also do community work in Mexico City, so I did an event called Un Espacio Para El Corazón, which is A Space For The Heart. It was an artist networking series where I brought expats in South and Central Americas and Chilango people, living and working and from Mexico City. I paid everybody, all my collaborators. I worked with Vivian and Brian of The Urban X, which is a Black artist residency program, and they fly New York artists out to Mexico, and Mexico City artists out to New York to do artist residencies, and they're two amazing Black people that speak fluent Spanish, and did language translation during the whole event. And then Angie B. is someone who was Okinawan and Black and indigenous, and she did a guided meditation. And then my friend Jade, my amazing collaborator Jade Fassbinder has helped me put on this event for the last two years, and this year we could actually fund it. Last year, everybody just donated their time. This is all on YouTube and stuff too.

Sanni Brown 

So this is an event?

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Yeah, it's called Un Espacio Para El Corazón, so it's A Space For The Heart. But we want to make it global. So I want to do it in Amsterdam. I have friends in Amsterdam and Berlin where I want to do the event there. I want to do the event in Chicago. I want to basically have it so that local artists and creatives can connect with people coming into the places. And for me, that was a way to not be a gentrifier. That was a way to come into Mexico City, and instead of just partying and clubbing, and raising the property value, I could actually fund people who live and worked in Mexico City.

Sanni Brown 

That's powerful. That's what this series is?

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Yeah, that's what this series is about. And I want it to be global. I want it to be in multiple countries. I want us to be in Kenya, I want it to be everywhere.

Sanni Brown 

That's powerful. I understand why you pulling in funding (laughs).

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

I believe that grant funding, too, is community funding. I'm not just gonna spend five grand on a computer for myself, you know? I'm gonna actually invest it. And I hired a Black queer financial advisor named Cayden Black this year. And I'm really, really excited to see where this funding could go. I don't just want to take 20,000, I want to build generational wealth with it. I want to pour into the community with it. And so I've approached grants this way since I first got my first grant. I've always tried to use it to fund, pay my collaborators, people who create with me.

Sanni Brown 

That's beautiful. I love that mindset. And I love that you're using this platform to speak about, you gotta pay your people. You gotta pay your people. And I love that that's a part of what you're doing. It makes sense why you're attracting so much success, you clearly know how to manage it.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

I got that left brain that not a lot of artists have. I like to read emails. I love to respond, read emails. Sometimes when I'm not at work, when I should put my phone away (laughs).

Sanni Brown 

How do we keep up with —

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

So it might have many different names. I would love for it to have a different name in every country. So in Germany, having a Dutch or German translations as well. So it's called Un Espacio Para El Corazón, so that's A Space For The Heart. And then last year, we called el lugar, which is a place versus a space. I have it on up on YouTube, so I have video recaps that our amazing Ecuadorian photographer,  Kari Reina took that you can look at. It's all on my YouTube channel, it's also under Taylor Ngiri Seaberg. You can find me under Taylor Ngiri Seaberg on most things. I've been wanting to keep and retain my maternal grandfather's roots. He's from Nairobi, and so it's very important to me that I go by and Ngiri and I have more publicly for the last six years, so it's been great. And then on Spotify, you can look up either my all Black punk rock band, Black Velvet Punks with Roderick Glasper and Traiveon Dunlap, my bassist, drummer, trio. And you can also look up music under Manic Pixie Dream Boi for my new beats coming out of the new album.

Sanni Brown 

That is inspired by a powerful story. Taylor, thank you so much.

Taylor Ngiri Seaberg 

Thanks for having me. I know we talked about a lot, I rambled (both laugh). It's hard to condense.

Sanni Brown 

I said this offline at the beginning, I already knew you had so much to bring. I could just feel it. You feel very full and peaceful. I love the work you're doing, it is community driven and it shows. And I understand why you got a lot of support backing you. You clearly got a touch to the community. It's beautiful to be able to hear somebody say it, but to be able to see it, too. So I thank you so much for coming in and sharing your vibe, and I know you got to get back outside. Thank you so much.

Cadence and Mattie from NUNNABOVE sat down with Carbon Sound’s host Sanni and talked about what it’s like to be in a band with your siblings as well as the rewarding experiences that have come with it, including meeting and opening up for Chaka Khan.

This interview transcript has been edited for length and clarity.

Sanni

I'm excited about this interview! Carbon Sound in studio — okay, first, let me go ahead and run the credentials. Has performed so far at one of the Minnesota Wild games, has performed at Mall of America's Nickelodeon Universe, has performed at the Minnesota State Capitol, has performed — hello — at the State Fair Grandstand opening for the Chaka Khan and the Boyz II Men, and has also performed on America's Got Talent. And yes, they are local. I have in studio with me from NUNNABOVE, Cadence and Mattie. Welcome Mattie, welcome Cadence. Thank you so much for pulling up.

Cadence 

Thank you so much for having us. I am super excited to be here. I love watching y'all do your thing. You're always on my feed, I'm like, "Yes! Carbon Sound!"

Sanni

I love that when our interviewees — y'all hype, I love that. So first, give us your elevator pitch for those who don't know you, those who are not fans and who play your music all the time on they radio show (laughs).

Cadence 

We are NUNNABOVE. We are a four sibling band from the Twin Cities. I'm Cadence, our sister Mattie on the keys. Our other two brothers are not here, but our third oldest plays guitar, and then the youngest plays drums. The babies.

Sanni

That makes sense that the baby be on the drums — I feel like, dynamic wise.

Cadence 

They always make fun of him. They'll be like, "Oh, you not actually a musician, because you on the drums. Because you don't got any notes." And I'm like, "yes he is."

Mattie  

The joke is — so drums are like the first instrument, you know what I'm saying?

Sanni

Yeah! That's the heartbeat. I'm in rap school, that's what the heartbeat is. Don't sleep on the drums (everyone laughs).

Mattie 

No we not! Drums is first, but it make him irritated. So we be like, "Okay, will all the musicians and Wisdom, please come downstairs."

Sanni

What I'm hearing here is some sibling trolling going on (laughs). So how is that dynamic of doing something as magical as making music, and you're doing it with people who tease you about you being the drummer. How do you balance the dynamic? How do you do it as siblings?

Mattie 

I mean, the way that you do it — and I think this really is the way — if you're gonna do anything with your family, you gotta fight.

Sanni

Oh my God. God bless you (everyone laughs). Baby I feel the same way, baby! Let's go ahead and take it outside (laughs). Wait a minute, Carbon Sound does not condone any violence. But I really do feel the same way. So is that happening in the lyrics? In the music? On the stage? How are you allowing that dynamic?

Cadence 

I think a lot of it happens in rehearsals. We rehearse every day, two, three hours every day. And in rehearsal, if something has gone on and it's on somebody's mind —

Mattie 

Because we also live together, too.

Cadence 

Yeah, we all live together. We got a studio in our basement, and then my wife and I live in the basement. We're in that room, and then the studio is right there, and then everybody else is upstairs.

Sanni

So y'all doing Real World the music version. Oh my goodness. And I'm looking at the credentials, teamwork make the dream work! How are you balancing — because all the siblings wanna know.

Cadence 

You tell me! Balance, what is balance??

Mattie 

We fight daily, and then we get over it and we go along.

Sanni

So what I'm hearing is, you allow room for conflict.

Mattie 

Absolutely.

Cadence 

And we preface it all in we love each other. Like we'll have people be upset about whatever, and we'll say, "It's time for a sibling check in." And we'll all get together. Usually it's in my room for some reason, my rooms like the hub. I've always got warm lights on, and I have plants. I love plants. I'm building like a floral arm sleeve — it's gonna be a whole thing.

Sanni

So you have a sibling regular check in, in your room.

Cadence 

And we'll say, "Alright, everybody go around and give your grievances. And even if you don't like it, our rule is, know that 30% of the time you do it, at least 30% of the time.

Mattie 

Because if somebody come at you like, "Oh my gosh, whenever I ask you to do something, you always yell at me and say no." Even if it's not true, you'd be like, "I don't do that!" Just accept that at least 30% of the time, you be doing that.

Sanni

That is so beautiful. I want to mentally apologize to my man, because I just took 30% accountability in my head like, you know what that number, that's about right. It's probably like 30%.

Cadence 

And that works in all relationships!

Sanni

It was like three walls that just dropped. In my head like, "You know what sis, I probably do do that." So there is a lot of healthy functionality in y'all dynamic.

Cadence 

So I went to school for psych. I majored in psychology, and then I did a minor in ministry and music.

Sanni

I majored in Psych.

Cadence 

You give that, you give that energy, too! So yeah, family dynamics are probably one of the hardest dynamics out there, period.

Mattie 

And family systems, too. Because the thing is, you'll be looking and it's like, "Oh, this one person is always doing stuff in this family.” Like, no, they're filling that wild card role. They're filling that role.

Sanni

Okay, see y'all helping me on some other stuff. So when did you guys decide to go from just siblings to "Yeah, we're gonna do this band thing." When did you make that decision?

Mattie 

2013.

Cadence 

Really young. Yeah, I was 13, okay? And wisdom was eight.

Sanni

I love it. Okay, so you guys were pretty young. And you're making this big decision with your siblings, no less. And it works! I mean, y'all working it. What has been the most rewarding experience?

Cadence 

First of all, that's a crazy good question.

Sanni

Listen I told you, I'm working some things though (laughs). I need to see the light of working with your siblings!

Cadence 

I feel like there are so many moments that stick out to me — obviously opening for Chaka Khan was incredible.

Sanni

And Boyz II Men! That's two different eras of amazingness, and you opened for them!

Cadence 

And she was so kind — so we met her at Paisley Park. We were playing at Paisley Park, I forget the event.

Mattie 

It was a Prince birthday celebration. She was there doing a panel. We performed twice; we did one in the morning, we were gonna do one at night. So it was nine in the morning, we performed, and her security guard, like the head of security, he saw us. He was like, "Yeah, I saw y'all. I took a little video, and I showed Chaka, and she loves y'all."

Cadence 

And so we went back and we saw her panel, and then afterwards, went backstage and she came up to us and was like, "Y'all, you sound — you guys are amazing. I gotta get on a record with y'all."

Mattie 

What she said, she said, "y'all some bad motherf****rs."

Cadence 

She did say that! I didn't know if I could say that (laughs).

Sanni

I love that, we need that! That's the real music! You moved her.

Cadence 

I was very touched. She hugged us, right here (signaling Chaka came up to Cadence's chin).

Sanni

Is she short??

Mattie 

She little. And her presence is so large, it's like, yo, she's amazing.

Sanni

She's from Chicago. I'm from Chicago, too. How did y'all respond?

Cadence  

We were blown away. I was trying not to fan out. I was trying not to fan girl, like, embarrass myself.

Sanni

How did your brothers, how did they handle it?

Mattie 

They were doing the same thing as us.

Cadence 

She hugged everybody, gave everybody hugs. And was like, "I gotta get on a record with y'all." I was like, "what you mean??"

Mattie 

So after Paisley Park, we were like, "Oh, that's great, let's just keep in touch." So our dad, who's our manager, one of the managers, he was like, "I see that she's performing at the State Fair. I wonder if she needs an opener." And so he emailed and he contacted them, and was like, "Hey do you need an opener?" And Chaka's team responded like, "Hey, you can have like 15 minutes of her time.”

Cadence 

Of her time! 15 minutes of her time.

Mattie 

She gave us 15 minutes of her time to put us on at the State Fair. It was really cool. So we were out there —

Cadence 

Tweaking.

Mattie 

Obviously we were tweaking, because we had songs lined up, and our producer was like, "Alright, so you have 15 minutes — these songs is too long." We rearranged the songs so everything could be literally 15 minutes to the dot, with the intro and everything. So we're outside practicing on the actual scale of the Grandstand, from our driveway, because we have a townhouse thing going on. So we're in one of the townhouses, we're outside. We look really silly. They got their guitars and Wisdom's playing in the back. So, you know, the scale of the Grandstand, to see how fast Cadence and Bennett need to be switching and moving so we can get there on the time.

Cadence 

Because Bennett does this thing where — we played "She's Always in My Hair" by Prince, and Bennett does this thing on the Prince guitar solo. He'll run up and put the guitar behind his back and play the solo. And so we were trying to time how long it would take him to get there on the real thing. So we were in our driveway, I was like, "Bennett, run! Do it again. You gotta get quicker!"

Sanni

You guys are practicing outside. Oh, I love this. I love a good music story!

Cadence 

I wish there was some videos of that.

Sanni

Nobody recorded nothing?

Cadence 

You know, there is footage of us — because we that's not the first time we've done this. We did that a lot when we were like 19.

Mattie 

We lived in a smaller place. We practiced outside a lot, because we were learning to dance too at this time. And we were outside once, just dancing to one of our songs. And our dog, she come running down the stairs, and we're filming, because we gotta film yourself to look back. She come running down the stairs, outside the backyard, and all of the sudden she just don't like whatever Bennett is doing. So she just, like, jumps up and starts pushing him. And she like, chases him around the yard. And we're still dancing.

Cadence 

We're practicing. I was like, "We can't let anything distract us."

Mattie 

Right, like I have to get this right. Let's move. So he's just running around, and he's screaming like, "Not like this! River, no!" (Everyone laughs)

Sanni

This was the meatiest first break of a musical guest in here. Okay, so now that we've got the dynamics of you being siblings. Y'all got the system set up, so that y'all can continue going on and grow into NUNNABOVE-ness. And so now I need to know where y'all headed, because you clearly elevating. And I want to catch you, because I noticed a lot of groups, they elevate right out of Minnesota. So this next break, I want y'all to holler at me about what y'all working on right now. It is The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. In studio, I have Cadence and Mattie from NUNNABOVE, which is a four sibling pop group here in the Twin Cities. They have performed for Chaka Khan, they have performed for Boyz ll Men. And now we're gonna find out where else they're performing after this on The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life, this is Music Class.

Sanni

It's The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. We are in music class with NUNNABOVE. I am doing the absolute most trying not to scream in this microphone. I am in studio with Cadence and Mattie of the four sibling pop group, Bennett and Wisdom are not here. I want to show some respect — which one of them, was the brothers with the dog, was teasing him? It was Bennett. I respect you, man. I respect your hustle (laughs). You holding it down as the lead guitarist. So we've gone over your sibling dynamic, the intentionality of you guys really bringing any issues to the front, I love that. I love you tackling it head on, which leaves so much room for creativity. And obviously it's working for you. So how are you using this creativity? What do you got going on? What's poppin? What's in the future? Because I know y'all got practice or rehearsal today. You're clearly working on something. Let me put it like this, what show are you most excited about that's coming?

Cadence 

Well, I love all the shows we have coming up, but I'm most excited about our Art Series - Sunset, on May 30, 6 to 9pm at The Woman’s Club in Minneapolis.

Sanni

What's that about?

Cadence 

It is a new thing we started. We wanted to create a space where art, and it's various forms could be appreciated at once. Because a lot of times, you can go to a concert and experience a musician — amazing. You can go to an art gallery, look at some paintings and stuff like that, which is great, but a space where multiple artists can get together that do painting, photography, poetry, spoken word, music, everything, and just be appreciated for what it is, I think, is what was missing. So that's what we made, it's called Art Series, and each one — our goal is to have it in a different season. So far, we had one in spring. It was March 30, and it was Art Series - Daisy at the Hennepin History Museum.

Sanni

Wait, what happened at the Daisy?

Mattie 

We had an amazing painter do a live painting to like a small concert. So Sean Garrison came in, and he does a lot of art around the Twin Cities and just everywhere. But he came in and he did a live painting to us doing a small, 30 minute concert. And then there was the art gallery outside. There were collages, poems, I made this dress inspired by the flowers that bloom in Minnesota on the river in March. It was all based around flowers, and we called it Daisy, because we've got a song Daisy coming out soon.

Sanni

I like the promo and the art offering! It's a creative spin on promo, because, one, you're letting your fans know, "Hey, we still in that studio doing that thing." But then also, we're also not just creating an album, like it's a multi-art experience for your fans, because not only do we get to go see you perform this and then other people respond to your art, but we're also telling you about more art.

Cadence 

We're also able to feature artists that need help, and that want to get out there and be seen.

Sanni

What were some of the earlier challenges that you did have when you first started as a band?

Mattie  

Work ethic.

Sanni

Really?

Mattie 

Yeah because, you know, it's four siblings. We're different people. And I just started learning, maybe two, three years ago, how to really like and love my family at the same time.

Sanni

There's a balance, baby.

Mattie 

Sometimes, you feel like you're pulling more weight than somebody else, or they don't want to get up and practice. Or "Why do we have to practice this often?" It's like, because you suck, like you're bad. Like that's why, because you gotta get better. It's just facts. And not everybody was on the same page with exactly what we're doing and why, earlier on. And so it just took time to first of all, prove that this will pay off if you do these things that you don't want to do and that you feel are really tedious and not necessary, and you'll be better for it in every way, even if it doesn't work out. My dad, he keeps saying, like, "Listen, if you all give it your best and you try and try, and you put all your heart and soul into this and it don't work out, that's fine. Go do something else. You're skilled and you're dedicated and you're hard working. Those are skills that are applicable anywhere."

Cadence 

And he would always say, like, "You can always go get a different kind of job."

Mattie 

You can!

Cadence 

But this is a specific thing that has a shelf life — I mean, even part of what we were doing before, in terms of us being really young, and siblings, and Black, and talented, that's gone too. Because I'm 25, just turned 25.

Mattie 

She knocking on 60 right now.

Cadence 

That's crazy (both laugh).

Sanni

The brain just got done cooking. See what life feels like when you're coming from a more cooked perspective (laughs). So work ethic, you clearly got that together, and you're clearly now putting it into these seasonal art series. So you're doing this all the seasons?

Cadence 

We're gonna try it for the first year, yeah.

Mattie 

So this May one, it's May 30, kind of into June. We'll rock that for the summer. And it's focused on legendary women.

Sanni 

I want to know more, why women? Why sunset?

Cadence 

Mother's Day coming up, but it's also at the Woman's Club. And also, women are amazing. Especially in this time, we just need to push.

Sanni

I like to do themes on the show. So the theme is woman. Why sunset? Because as a woman that's kind of scary to hear (laughs). But sunset is a beautiful thing. And the reason I say that is because in the world, a sunset could be a sunset of beauty or a sunset of youth. What's your perspective?

Cadence 

That's a good question. I feel like the real answer to that question is we're holding this whole show on the rooftop of the Woman's Club, and we're gonna have some drones going to get some good footage, and hopefully things will coincide at the sunset.

Mattie 

Yes, we hit golden hour. Golden hour and sunset specifically because the artists we have featured, they're Black women, like legendary Black women, and we look good at golden hour.

Sanni

That's a thing called golden hour? Because you ain't lying. That's when my skin looked the best. Okay, duly noted, golden hour. The spring is here, we wanna make sure we adjust. So again, this is going down the rooftop event Art Series, theme is Sunset and Women. This is going down at the Woman's Club of Minneapolis, May 30. Where can we find this? I just want everybody to know.

Cadence 

All this information is on our Instagram @nunnabove. Also our website, nunnabove.com, and you can also find this particular show on the Woman's Club Minneapolis website.

Sanni

Is there anything that Bennett or Wisdom wanted to leave? A joke or something with us —

Cadence 

Something out of pocket.

Mattie 

Yeah, they would say something out of pocket.

Sanni

Aw man, now I'm kind of wishing they were here (everyone laughs). I didn't ask this yet, but what's the age hierarchy here?

Cadence 

25.

Mattie 

 23.

Cadence 

Bennett is 21 and Wisdom just turned 20.

Sanni

Is there anything that I didn't cover that you guys want to say?

Mattie 

I want to say, the featured artists that we have for the Art Series Sunset are Jearlyn Steele from the Steele Family Singers.

Cadence 

Toured with Prince. And her sister, Jevetta Steele is our performance coach, and she'll come over to our house and critique our shows so that they're up to par, and she'll give us all of her knowledge of touring with Prince, and she's incredible. But yes, we have Jearlyn Steele as a guest, and also Patricia Lacy.

Mattie 

She toured with Luther Vandross, and she was also a member of the Sounds of Blackness for 27 years.

Cadence 

We've performed with Sounds of Blackness a bunch, too. We love Sounds of Blackness.

Mattie 

We love Gary. Shout out Gary Hines.

Cadence 

We were just at their Christmas — not just, it's 2025. But we were in their Christmas show, and their Christmas show is amazing.

Mattie 

Love that show.

Sanni

This is what I'm talking about. Y'all just casually talking about music legends, just casually, literally. So if y'all want to hang out with NUNNABOVE, because they be hanging out with the stars. Make sure you pull up to the Sunset and Women Series at the Woman's Club of Minneapolis, and be sure to follow NUNNABOVE online, because y'all busy, booked busy, like rehearsal in three hours (laughs). Let me get out your way, Cadence and Mattie, I appreciate y'all so much for coming in. Thank you so much. And good luck to you, for real. I ain't gotta say good luck — somebody finna scoop you up. I appreciate y'all, thank you. This is Cadence and Mattie from NUNNABOVE. Much love to Bennett and Wisdom, would love for you guys to come back in again, and I want to get some of their personality too. I want to see the whole full picture of NUNNABOVE. But again, thank you so much. And you guys, be sure to follow NUNNABOVE and keep up with them, because they are booked and busy. We are going to continue on with the show. I still have more songs for you in Music Class, so don't go anyplace. It's The Message Carbon Sound Music for Life.

Taoheed Bayo stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about all of his creative endeavors: from events and short films to magazines and books.

Sanni

Lagos in the building! Carbon Sound, Sanni in here with another interview, I have so many questions. I am new to model, designer, director, author, curator, dancer, and more. And as I'm sitting here in front of this magazine, and the vibe and energy that you got coming up off you — Carbon Sound family, Taoheed Bayo, also known as Tbuzz in the Carbon Sound studios, yay! Welcome! Boom, you just said you just came back from Lagos 48 hours (ago). Boom, what was the last thing you ate?

Taoheed Bayo 

You know what's funny, I think being in America for so long, my immune system is like, gone to dust. So I would get to Lagos and overindulge, like I'm eating everything from street food to restaurant, and in the last few days I'm just like, "Maybe I should slow down." The last thing I ate was Pounded Yam, and Egusi, and something called Efo Riro.

Sanni

Efo Riro! That's my dish, baby!

Taoheed Bayo 

Yeah so was my last meal. I think that was Sunday/Monday.

Sanni

West African food is my — I'm Nigerian.

Taoheed Bayo 

No way!

Sanni

Yessir, my people is from Lagos, baby (laughs).

Taoheed Bayo 

Oh, wow! I wasn't privy to that information. Well hello there, my Nigerian sister.

Sanni

Hello, Tbuzz, wow. I mean, everything about you, your essence, your vibe. Whoo. Okay, so for those of us who aren't able to get this whirlwind of who you are, can you give us your elevator pitch? Who are you?

Taoheed Bayo 

Yeah, I usually describe myself as a multidisciplinary, multihyphenate artist rooted in community, exploring movement arts. So that involves curations, performance art, dance, filmmaking, traveling. I think traveling itself is a form of art. I think it's almost forgotten about, because it's not cheap and it's not accessible to everybody. So in my privilege, I have come to understand that travel itself is a form of art. So I describe myself as a traveling artist, as a nomad as well. But yeah, that amongst many other things, and obviously bottom line — human.

Sanni

Just based off your background info I have in your artistic pursuits, Tbuzz' focus lies in illuminating — this is so important to me, because the movie Sinners just came out, and this is why this stuck out to me. Your focus is illuminating Black stories, reflecting an extension of your very being. Why are Black stories important in the work that you do?

Taoheed Bayo 

Well I think being a Black person, as a Black man, as a Black muse, I think one thing I've learned over the years is like, how do we control the narratives? And the only way I feel like to control the narratives is to create our own platform, is to tell our own story, through our own voices. So with that being said, whether it's my voice or the next man's voice, being a Black person, it's like, how do we echo those voices? That way we find resonance in the world, we find resonance in our neighboring cities. So for me, it's very important to use my Blackness to shape the way I move around in the world.

Sanni

I hear you say Blackness. Now I know you from — are you from Lagos, Nigeria?

Taoheed Bayo 

Born and raised.

Sanni

Okay, so then you understand about the tensions between African Americans and African immigrants. And so both of my parents, they mixed. So we've had that conversation — I got a African American mama and a Nigerian daddy. So it's an interesting conversation to see had. Do you include that in the Black stories and in the Black conversations?

Taoheed Bayo 

I feel like Blackness is limitless and dynamic, in that the way I describe Blackness might be different from the way that you describe Blackness, but I think when I think about Blackness I think about like this unity of Black people around the world. I'm talking about Black people in Africa itself, I'm talking about Black people in the United States, I'm talking about Black people in Jamaica, I'm talking about Black people in Trinidad and Tobago. I'm talking about Black people in Brazil, and never crevicing corners of the world. So when I say Blackness, it's like an all-encompassing word that kind of just includes everybody. In places like Lagos, for example, it's hard for you to even use words like Black, because everybody there is just Black (laughs). But then, as you travel the world, and you're in spaces like the United States, or like anywhere else besides Africa, you would have to describe yourself — use that word to kind of describe your experiences.

Sanni

I consider myself to be a creative, and just looking at your visuals, you have a magazine here. I'm hearing about a film, the magazine alone is blowing my mind. So where did all of this explosive creativity start? Like, when you were young, help us (laughs).

Taoheed Bayo 

It's funny, it didn't start young. I've always been a curious being. From a little kid, I was a little rascal. I always had questions. You know how kids ask, "Why? Why?" I was definitely a "why" kid. And I think that curiosity led me to having expansiveness in the way that I see the world. I'm just curious about how that works. I actually, I'm not an art student. I went to school to study mathematics (laughs).

Sanni

I mean, it makes sense in the world you are in, just like intrinsic mathematics, but that is weird. You went to school for mathematics and you're doing all of this creativity.

Taoheed Bayo 

Exactly, and I think it's allowing yourself room to be multitudes. I think that's one thing I've learned over the years is like there are these boxes, there are these expectations that we can be modest about, but then knowing that you can be humble, but still be multitudes is kind of what I've allowed myself to grow into. So I went to school for mathematics, graduated in 2020, but between 2018 and 2020 while going to college was when I started modeling, dancing and just kind of exploring all the different forms of art. This magazine was made in collaboration with my friend who is the editor in chief, Mark Odumuyiwa. We both went to the U together, so we became friends while going to college. And for me, I think my relationships is really what's guided my path as an artist. If I'm friends with you and you're doing something, my urge is that I want to collaborate with you at some point, and then that might lead to a magazine, that might lead to a film, that might lead to a conversation that I remember down the line, or it's even recorded, so I think that's how I got into exploring the arts.

Sanni

So you were an adult when you really started to bloom and find out these, like you said, multifaceted parts of you.

Taoheed Bayo 

Exactly. Yeah, it definitely was. This was 2018.

Sanni

So for all the young folks, if young folks listening and you like "I ain't found it yet." Just chill! Relax.

Taoheed Bayo 

There's time! I think understanding there's time, and grace as well. And sometimes I'm like, "Ah I wish I went to art school, maybe this thing might have been in a faster pace." But then I'm also understanding that allowing the time and giving myself grace to understand that these things are happening in divine timing. So yeah, it's more than enough time.

Sanni

I just want to lay this out, you have a short film. Could you just give me a little bit about that?

Taoheed Bayo 

So I made that short film, I believe it was April 2022.

Sanni

Wait what's the name?

Taoheed Bayo 

Ààrẹ. In Yoruba culture, it can be used to describe a king, a leader, royalty. It also kind of just means like this expansive being. So that is the title of the film, and in that title, I was exploring archival Yoruba practices, oral traditions, poetry and obviously, dance, as you can see in the film. That film started from a place of curiosity as well. I remember seeing the headpiece in my friend's closet, and I was like, "Hey, it reminds me of royalty. It reminds me of like the kings in Africa, in Nigeria." And then I reached out to a poet of mine who is Nigerian, like, "Hey, I just saw this headpiece. I'm thinking about a film, but I need poetry, and I'm gonna need spoken words to really send this message across the audience, or to even for me to better understand this thing that I want to do." He replies, saying "Yeah, I can write poetry for this." So he sent the poem. I reached out to another friend, and we're shooting, like, less than a week after finding the headpiece.

Sanni

So inspiration, called the lyricist, called the film director. And again, this all started — you're an adult. This is your network.

Taoheed Bayo 

This is my network. A friend of mine will usually say "Art is urgent." And even though we've spoken about time and grace earlier, there's almost like a yin and yang relationship in understanding the spectrum of things. It doesn't always have to be slow, it doesn't always have to be still. It could also be quick and fast. So finding balance, really, truly. Sometimes a project might take me two months to start, and some might start in like, 30 minutes. And I already know everybody that's working on the project.

Sanni

You're saying "Let it be." The art calls for the timing that it needs.

Taoheed Bayo 

Exactly.

Sanni

And so you saying this your process.

Taoheed Bayo 

This is my process.

Sanni

Oh my gosh! Tbuzz in the building. I needed to be in this space with you.

Taoheed Bayo 

I'm glad to be in company.

Sanni

Oh my goodness, Tbuzz, Taoheed Bayo, local model, designer, director, author, curator, dancer and more, dropping the gems on the creatives, because you know how we get in our heads. And so it's just nice to hear a creative speak to their experience. We will be right back. I got a bunch of questions for you. In fact, what I would like to know — so we've talked about your magazine, and we've talked about your short film. You got a book too?? Lord have mercy. Okay, so when we get back, we're gonna get into that.

Taoheed Bayo 

About the magazine, I'd like to also credit the other person, which is Mark Odumuyiwa. He was the mastermind that really said, "Hey, I want to highlight community" and invited me onto the project as a art editor and creative director, so I just wanted to put that out there.

Sanni

You gonna have plenty of time to give him some love, because we've done the magazine, went over the film, and now we're going to get to the book, and then we're going to get to some events.

Taoheed Bayo 

Lovely.

Sanni

Okay, Taoheed Bayo, also known as Tbuzz, in the Carbon Sound Studios. We'll be right back, because again, creatives, we got the gems. Don't go any place.

Sanni

In studio, Carbon Sound, we are in Music Class. We are really learning today. Taoheed Bayo, also known as Tbuzz, local model, designer, director, author, curator, dancer, and more. I feel like that "and more" is so disrespectful. So far we've gone over your magazine Something To Say. And I mean, I feel like we didn't even touch on it, why is it called Something To Say?

Taoheed Bayo 

So my friend, co-collaborator of almost seven, eight years now, Mark, in our conversations we spoke about how we needed something like this when we started seven, eight years ago. And that the fact that we had things that we wanted to share, things that we wanted to say, but there was no platform for us to really echo that. So for him, the title — Mark came up with it in that conversation, in that breath of like "We actually have something to say."

Sanni

There's that urgency you're talking about.

Taoheed Bayo 

Exactly. We have something that needs to be heard. We have voices that need to be amplified and echoed. So that's kind of that title came about.

Sanni

Wow. This is a beautiful piece of work. You didn't just throw this together. This is some talented people. I mean, who's featured in here? Who all do you have?

Taoheed Bayo 

A lot of local artists, actually. I think 90% of the people in the magazine are actually people that are either living in Minneapolis, from Minneapolis, converged in Minneapolis, and other organizations as well that are doing good stuff. Samambo is in there, ITS Fest is in there, Fluidtranquility/Kaya is in there, Yasmeenah is in there.

Sanni

Just the messaging you have in here, I love this, just opening this up: "Things that are difficult to understand are worth talking about."

Taoheed Bayo 

Yes, and that was written by Kaya (Fluidtranquility), brilliant designer, DJ, and more. And just in the way that you describe me, I think he's a multidisciplinary, multihyphenate person. And I remember in the beginning of making the magazine, and we're finding who we want to include in this magazine, that was literally one of the first things I mentioned. Because I'd hang out with him, and in our company, we've spoken about so many things, and I've always just been curious about his mind. And then I told him, literally, I was like, "Hey, you're one of the people in this magazine where I'm literally just gonna let you do whatever you want to do."

Sanni

Wow. That's so important. I don't know whose supervisor I'm listening to, but let the artist be the artist! That's so important.

Taoheed Bayo 

Exactly, I was like, "I just want to learn about the things that you are curious about. I want to learn about your process. I want to learn about the things that you're obsessed over, the things that you're observing and seeing." And, yeah, he wrote about his observations, he wrote about his thoughts, and that's kind of how that came about.

Sanni

It's risky, though. I know you said art can go slow sometimes, but it can be urgent, too. How do you handle risk? Because there's so much risk in art, how do you juggle that? In order to get the real, you got to go through that messy stuff. So how do you balance that?

Taoheed Bayo 

I think it's a high risk, high reward environment. I went to school for risk management as well (both laugh).

Sanni

I'm so glad you said it, when I said in the last break you went to school for mathematics, and it kind of fits into this, that's what I mean!

Taoheed Bayo 

Yeah, it does. It does. So I did a minor in risk management. And then in theory, you learn that the more risk, the more reward. So in understanding that is also understanding that, like for an artist to create from a place of abundance, there's so much mess in that place, there's so much questions and so many risks, as you said. And art is not perfect. The imperfection of art is what makes it art. So understanding that whatever this person comes up with, would find resonance with somebody. Maybe not me, it could be the next man or the next woman or the next person. So yeah, just allowing that fluidity, which is funny, because the name of the artist that wrote that is Fluidtranquility. So allowing that fluidity in the creations is risky, but it always pays off. In my experience, it has always paid off because then you just have these people that are really expressing themselves without limits, expressing themselves from a place of abundance.

Sanni

Is that who you're featuring in here? People who are comfortable with being risky? Why is it important to highlight Minnesota creatives in the way that you do?

Taoheed Bayo 

I was born and raised in Lagos, but I've been living here since 2015 and in my experience, I just experienced and encountered so many talented and brilliant artists, beings —

Sanni

Someone from Lagos is saying it! I've been here since early 90s, but I'm still in awe (laughs). And I mean in creativity, in film direction, and music and in painting, like I'm not understanding the artistry here. I just don't understand it (laughs).

Taoheed Bayo 

It's endless, truly is endless. I mean, I've traveled the world, and I always echo, like "Yo, Minneapolis is one of the places." This year, especially, I've been inviting people to come to Minneapolis. I hosted one of my friends, I want to say in February, just for him to come see what the city is about, and kind of meet people and kind of understand that, like, wait, just as Paris and London has this brilliant and mass of like talent, it exists here as well.

Sanni

Man, I'm so glad you said that. I just visited New York, I graduated from rap school, and I wanted to feel what New York was. And I do feel like there's an element here. I'm just so happy that we have artists like you, creatives like you — not only are you just feeling it, you're creating. You got a magazine, you got a film, you got a book — we didn't get to the book! Move, I Dare You. What's that about?

Taoheed Bayo 

I mean, just like in the title itself, it's like an invitation. Like I dare you to do this, it's a risk. It's an invitation to explore. Invitation to transit. In Transit, I've learned so many things about myself, so many adventures, so many questions that I've had have been answered, and even more questions added to that.

Sanni

You're saying in the middle of the motion, you're getting stuff that's inspiring the arts.

Taoheed Bayo 

Exactly. I'm finding answers to the questions I had, and then maybe even gathering more questions. So with me, with Move, I Dare You, it started as an invitation to transit and servitude as well. I think you owe it to yourself to travel, you owe it to yourself to transit.

Sanni

And I love this — it's described as the book is a manifestation of servitude, this my part right here — childlike curiosities. What's that about? I feel like in our adult world, we got to pay bills and mortgage and trust funds and all this stuff, and we forget that childlike curiosity. So why is that important to include that?

Taoheed Bayo 

And I think it goes back to that risk, right? Kids are the biggest risk-takers. They have no restrictions, no bounds. They're very expansive in the way they just move about. So when I think about my childlike curiosities, I think about the things that I dreamt about and had not done yet, and I'm like, "When do I do them?" And telling myself the time is now to do this. Time is now to travel, the time is now to collaborate with this person. So that childlike curiosity is this yearning for more, this yearning to know what lies across the river, or lies across the plain. Yeah, it's just curiosities.

Sanni

Creativity, like you said, it could be messy and it's urgent and it's slow and it's just all these things, and I feel like you allowing yourself to just be who TBuzz is, it's making sense for me, like everything is clicking. So we got to the magazine, we got to the film, we got to the book. What's up with the events? Where you about to be? Because I know I'm not gonna be able to find you once you leave the studio (laughs).

Taoheed Bayo 

The events all started under the house Artropolis, which in the title in itself, art and polis. Art and polis, metropolitan, city. And just understanding how art is a thread of the cities, or a thread of cities. Without art, there's kind of no city.

Sanni

Yeah! You said without no art, there is no city. That's a bold statement. Why do you feel that way?

Taoheed Bayo 

Because artists are the ones that are reimagining things. I feel like nothing is new under the sun. Land is always there. Skeletons are always there. The bodies, the institutes are always there. But artists are the ones that are free enough to reimagine these spaces. How do we make this static thing a breathing and living space, a canvas for us to paint on. So that's where Artropolis started from. It started from that curiosity of like, how do we make our cities? How do we make our friendships breathing alive and living? How do we gather intentionally? How do we query ourselves and ask questions together and find this sharedness? Because I feel like we share so much in community. Yeah, so that's kind of where Artropolis started from.

Sanni

I'm hearing urgency, I'm hearing messiness. Do you ever have bad ideas?

Taoheed Bayo 

Yeah, I feel like all good ideas sometimes come from like bad ideas. Bad feels like a negative connotation, maybe just incomplete.

Sanni

Yeah — I'm sorry, incomplete or undercooked. What do you do with the ideas where initially it might not seem like it's a great idea, but you might have to go back. How do you even learn how to do that? Because you're saying it's not bad, it's just undercooked. I might need to live out five more months before this idea makes sense (laughs). So how do you approach that? How do you approach an idea that like it's good, but it still needs something?

Taoheed Bayo 

Yeah, experiences. You just experience more, like you said. You travel more. I feel like traveling, friends say, "Traveling is the ultimate mood board." The things you're seeing, the places you're visiting, the conversations you're having, that really is the template for everything.

Sanni

You're helping me understand why I love traveling — my Fiancé hates road trips. I love road trips because the visuals, when I come back, I'm ready to hit the ground running. And you're making sense of it. My body and my soul is telling me all of these things. Wow. Artropolis — this is a three night series that centers music as a medium and a conduit for collaboration, self expression, and cultural exchange. So this is a three night event.

Taoheed Bayo 

This had happened already. So this was a proposal to RESOURCE Minneapolis, I want to shout them out as well, it's a community space allowing artists to really just do what they want to do within the space. So they had an open call for submissions, and I submitted Artropolis Sonics, which is like the sonic room within Artropolis. Three night event, the first night was a Vinyl Night, and then it graduated into, like a Work in Progress Night, where we then invited artists like Moise, Miloe, SoulFlower, and papa to play unreleased music and share the work in progress and interact with audience. And the last night was Islamic Jazz Night, because it was during Ramadan. So that was that three part series for Artropolis Sonics at RESOURCE. So Artropolis is a form of installation that's going to be happening in different places, different spaces within the community, within the global landscape that I exist in. So Artropolis now within, in the next few months, will be installed, actually, at the Walker Art Center. So I'm working in collaboration with the teams there, along with a guild of about four people, which I'll actually name them, because more than ever, it's important to name people. Kwey of Samambo, Philli of ITS Fest, Awa Mally of Ahomé, and Ubah Abdullahi of Nu Aqaal. So these four people that I mentioned, I'm working day in, day out with them, with the Walker team, to imagine three summer events between July and September, and how we turn the Walker into a breathing canvas. How do we reimagine the spaces that already exist within this body of institutions? So yeah, really excited for that summer event series. So Artropolis Sonics was at RESOURCE, Artropolis — I think the theme is called Emerging Crossroads and Tangential Futures. And we're just kind of exploring the parallels and perpendiculars of culture, art, community, and our shared desires. So yeah, I'm really excited.

Sanni

Listen, you should definitely consider thinking about creating spaces for those of us who are 40 plus, because everything you just described with a nice little cocktail sounds amazing (laughs).

Taoheed Bayo 

There will be cocktails. There'll definitely be cocktails (laughs).

Sanni

One thing I notice about art, Bob Marley has a quote that says, "It hits you, but you feel no pain." And what I'm feeling when I see your work, when I hear you describe it, it's just like this artistic — like there's a nice, warm breeze. Like it's just comfortable and I feel seen, and I'm seeing, and just your essence, your vibe, does that. So I just want to thank you. And where can we follow you, where can we keep up with this, especially at the Walker. That's going to be a summer series?

Taoheed Bayo 

Yes, summer series. You can follow me at tbuzz.gram on Instagram. Artropolis.world on Instagram as well. I'm sure the Walker is going to make a public engagement announcement soon. Those are ways to keep up tab. I feel like Instagram, social media is the best way to stay in touch.

Sanni

Is there any way that locals can support you as well? Like your magazine, your book, your film. How can we support that?

Taoheed Bayo 

Yes, currently working on the second issue of the magazine, so we're applying to grants, we're looking for sponsorships for the magazine. With Move, I Dare You, I still have a few copies. No hurry to sell them, I think it's an archival piece. It's timeless.

Sanni

I'm watching how art can be emotional intelligence, I like what you just did (both laugh).

Taoheed Bayo 

Exactly. So honestly, I think I printed 175 copies of this. I think I have 50 copies left, thinking of ways to sell them and share them with the local community here and beyond. Artropolis, I'm also applying to multiple, multiple grants, because beyond the events happening at the Walker, I want to continue this for eternity, if possible.

Sanni

Y'all better hook up with Tbuzz because I don't know if he gonna be in this orbit long. No, I just noticed it makes sense that when we have artists like you and the communities that you're creating, it makes sense that the rest of the world is like, "Yeah, we're gonna need you." So if this is the last time I see you and your global, just — I knew it (laughs). Thank you so much. Taoheed Bayo, also known as Tbuzz, coming in here with all the magnificence. Creators, definitely somebody to follow. From where I'm standing, it just feel like you really got your stuff together (both laugh). And so I appreciate you coming in and taking some time and letting us know, and come back!

Taoheed Bayo 

I'm excited to! I love the stuff that Carbon Sound has been working on. echo, I've always been a fan of his intention. I think all of these is all about intentionality, the need to gather community. I was in Lagos, like I said, 48 hours ago, but a week ago I went to a talk. And then it was space owners in Amsterdam and music people. And they were talking about how for them to find musicians, they usually go to independent radio stations. And that's what Carbon Sound has been doing with local artists. With local artists, with visiting artists, Carbon Sound has kind of created this space, this room, for them to come be themselves and express themselves. So I wanted to shout out that initiative as well. It needs to continue. We need to kind of create our own spaces, create our own platforms, and kind of control the narratives. When you have platform, you can kind of control the narratives.

Sanni

Or add some new ideas to the narratives. Again, appreciate you. Taoheed Bayo, thank you so much for pulling up. Thank you for what you're doing. Everything you're doing, it's validating everything I'm already thinking about the Minnesota music scene. Thank you so much for being here.

Taoheed Bayo 

Of course, thank you for having me, and I'm glad to be in company.

k3ko sat down with Carbon Sound’s host Sanni and talked about upcoming music, her On The Radar experience, BandLab, and more.

Sanni Brown 

It's The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. Sanni here, up with our next interview. I am not familiar with k3ko, but I heard this song, "moonlight" and baby, I got to know some things. So before we start: born and raised in Minneapolis, k3ko felt like she was born singing. From talent shows to house parties, she spent years building her stage presence and perfecting her craft. She now has focused her talents on becoming a dedicated recording artist, which has gained her a fast growing recognition in the cities. You done did an album on BandLab, you done been featured On The Radar and again, back to this single "moonlight," ladies and gentlemen of the Carbon Sound family audience, welcome k3ko yay!

k3ko 

Thank you for having me here.

Sanni Brown 

Is it really like that? Is the resume like that? (Laughs)

k3ko 

Yeah, just a little bit. Not too much.

Sanni Brown 

This a lot though. Just off the top, first of all, I really like that song "moonlight."

k3ko 

Thank you.

Sanni Brown 

I love that a lot. Just off the top my head, before I get into the meat of the interview, what type of music is that called? Because I see that you blend R&B, pop, hyperpop, and Jersey club influences. I asked because Ciara has a song called "Promise," and it's like an airy kind of — and that's what that "moonlight" is bringing. How would you define that song?

k3ko 

I don't know. When I first started making music, I was doing a lot of the hyperpop, like Jersey club stuff, because it was easy and it was fun. And then I was like, "I sing for real." So I needed to just get on an R&B beat. I don't know, I just found the beat from YouTube. When I make songs, I just try to match the vibe and the energy of the beat. I would just say it's like a sensual R&B type of sound. It's very soft, but it's deep.

Sanni Brown 

Yeah, it is. I love that. There's layers to that song, just instantly hearing it upon the first time. Okay, so let's take it back. How did you get into all of this? How did you become k3ko? Or should I say musically, because, I mean, we could sit here for three hours. What started you in music? What started you out wanting to create music?

k3ko 

Well, I've always been a singer, from when I can remember. I don't remember learning how to sing or starting it. I just remember knowing how to sing. My friend that I brought with me, when we were really young, we used to just sing. I don't know, I just used to perform and sing. I love to sing. I never thought about making music though. I thought it was too difficult and too tedious. I was young though, I ain't go through nothing yet. So I'm like, "I'm gonna just sing Rihanna and Beyoncé and call it a day." I don't know, I just got up one day and I was like, "I can make a song." I'd just go on YouTube, find a beat and just vibe to it. And that's what I did. I used to just write songs in my notes and record on voice memos just to hear it back. But anytime I went to a studio to record, the vibe wasn't there. I was on a scheduled amount of time, and I didn't know the engineers very well, so they didn't really know how to help me — just working together. It just kind of felt like "There's a mic, go ahead and sing." And I needed a lot more help than that, so that was kind of discouraging. But someone told me about BandLab, and I was like, "What?" So I downloaded it and I tried it. I played around with it, and I was like, "Oh, this is a vibe right here." Because I could take my time. I don't really like writing, because I think too much and it slows me down. So when I get on BandLab — that's why I would record everything back, because I'm like, "I need to hear what this sounds like." But I can't hear a fully produced record if it's not fully produced. So when I got on BandLab, I was like, "Oh my god, this is way easier." I could just vibe. I can hear how it sounds just right away. I scrapped all the songs that I wrote in my notes, and I just started punching in songs on BandLab. And I've already been a SoundCloud listener; I like using SoundCloud as a music streaming platform. So I was just like, "I could just post it on SoundCloud." Tell everybody on Instagram to go listen to my music. And that's really where it came from.

Sanni Brown 

You know, as you're sitting here talking about it — and I know when it's your story, you're just telling it — can you hear "moonlight?" It has such an incredibly rich sound to it, the quality of it. And you're just like, "Yeah, I just got on BandLab, you know —" (laughs). So how do you know when a song is done? Because I've used BandLab in school. I'm in rap school, and we had to put together some stuff for us for one of the assignments, and we used BandLab. And that was complicated for me, because I just was unfamiliar with it. So to know that you are creating music with that, how do you know you're done with the song?

k3ko 

I used to think that I had to do all of the ins and outs, like I got to make sure I got the main vocals and the background vocals and the ad libs and all that. But the more I do it, if I like how it sounds, then that's it. That's why I never felt no type of way about using BandLab and dropping those songs, because I'm like, "I like how it sounds."

Sanni Brown  

It sounds incredible.

k3ko 

I don't really care to do too much to make it sound the crazy — if it sounds good, I'll drop it. But usually I like to do my harmonies and my layers, and that's when I feel most comfortable with the song, is if I have the layers down and I can create the experience around the sound for real.

Sanni Brown 

I only asked this because you were featured on On The Radar.

k3ko  

Oh, yeah. (Both laugh)

Sanni Brown 

Has anybody ever told you you have a vibe like Aaliyah?

k3ko 

I never got that, like, my vibe was like Aaliyah, but my music —

Sanni Brown 

You just have a really laid back vibe, just like, really gentle. But I'm just listening to the music, and what you're doing is really big.

k3ko 

I feel like I am pretty laid back, though. I try to stay humble.

Sanni Brown 

Is that the vibe in your music? You put that vibe in there?

k3ko 

Yeah, I make a lot of love songs. I make a lot of heartbreak songs, just emotional music. So I don't feel the need to overdo the presentation of it, because it's real, it's relatable, and I'm still me, I don't know. I just be chill. I like to sing, I like to sing my songs, and I'm still gonna be me.

Sanni Brown 

It feels authentic. The vibe feels like it is what it is. Ok so we gonna get into this On The Radar situation. Because I want to know, I want to know what that was like, how they contacted you, what it was, everything. So we gonna play some music, and then when we get back, we gonna talk about this On The Radar feature. In studio, Carbon Sound on The Message in Music Class we have k3ko, Minneapolis based artist. In the meantime, y'all listen to some music. Once we go off the air, y'all can listen to "moonlight." Stay tuned, k3ko in Music Class on The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life.

Sanni Brown 

All right, it's The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. I have another interview for you today. If you just pulled up, we are on the second half. We're on the most exciting part I feel like, I have k3ko, Minneapolis based artist, born and raised in Minneapolis been sanging long as she knew how to sang, has been featured on On The Radar, Ice Spice, Central Cee, Drake and them have been featured here, and you were featured there. You also have a song with local artist Riotgrrrldarko and you were also featured on Carbon Sound's favorite tracks from February with that song "moonlight." So how did you get featured on On The Radar?

k3ko 

It was really spontaneous. I was in New York working with my label on just content and developing the tape that I'm about to drop.

Sanni Brown 

Okay, Imma mark that hold on, "that tape I'm about to drop." Okay.

k3ko 

It wasn't as crazy as a lot of people think. A lot of people asked me how I got on there, but it wasn't that crazy. You know how they do the street performances with the mic? A couple people wanted to do that for me, and I brought it up to my label, and they were like, "you could just do On The Radar." And I was like, "What??" They're like, "Yeah, easy. We'll set that up for you, you're good." And then it was just that, they set it up, and I went over there. It was really chill. For it being On The Radar, it wasn't as flashy and crazy — I was nervous for that, because I'm like, "I'm not no celebrity."

Sanni Brown 

What happens?

k3ko 

I walked in, there was only two people there, a photographer and an engineer, and they were super cool. They were super chill. They're just like, "Yeah, your song's great. Just go up there." They have a whole little setup with the mics and the cameras, and they're just like, "Just go up there and just sing your song. You could do it live, or you can lip sync it." I decided to lip sync it because the song that I was using was too fast, and a lot of the layers were kind of on top of each other, so I didn't want to be on there stuttering and mumbling and stuff. So I'm just like, "Y'all can play it. I'll just perform it. I got you."

Sanni Brown 

The performance matters too, and it's your song.

k3ko 

It was super chill. We rolled up, we smoked a little bit. I got on the mic, and the photographer was hyping me up in the back. I did a couple takes. They were all good, but they just wanted to do multiple takes, just to see if anything special or if any takes was just better than the others. It was really easy; it was really simple. It was chill. They showed me what I look like, and I was like, "Oh my god, I look so good!" And, yeah, it was that simple. It wasn't no crazy, flashy — I appreciate the experience, and I know it was very big for me and for Minneapolis, but it just felt like some chill, felt like this almost. Like we're just chilling, with the mic and the cameras.

Sanni Brown 

But you know something, for me I think that lends to your authentic vibe. Because I get a "it is what it is" with you. For me, I like that. I like when I'm around "it is what it is" people. I don't like when I feel like I got to be psychic to be in your presence (laughs). So if that's what the music was, then that's what it was. It's cool. Now back to this tape drop, project that's in the works. What tape you talking about? Because I usually hear rappers talk about dropping tape. And I hear you, I hear you on "moonlight." The vocals is there. So what's up with the tape drop?

k3ko 

So the tape is called Forever, it's mostly an R&B tape, "moonlight" is on there. That's my first drop from the tape. I made "moonlight" like two years ago, and it's just a gem so I put it on the tape. I have a couple other songs on the tape that I made like a year or two ago. I'm just trying to show my skill and my talent, because like I said, I started doing just the fun, easy stuff, and I'm just posting it on SoundCloud like, "Y'all can have this, y'all can have that." And going to parties, it was easy to perform those songs too, because people don't really have to think too much, it's a party song, it's a dance song. But I thought it was necessary to actually put out a tape that's consecutive and I'm actually showcasing what I can do. I can sing, and I can hop on different types of beats, and you can still feel what I'm singing about or what I'm saying, so I'm excited for the drop. I haven't dropped in a while. I just started dropping again after the On The Radar.

Sanni Brown 

That's what I was gonna ask, what happened after you came back from all that?

k3ko 

The On The Radar, I actually did last year in April I think. It takes a while for them to put the videos out, and there's like a lineup of people who have to get their videos out too. So that's why mine ended up coming out not right when I did it. But after the On The Radar was posted, it just felt like the time to just keep the momentum. That's why I dropped "moonlight." The tape is pretty much done, we're just working on how we're gonna put it out. So I'm excited.

Sanni Brown 

I was gonna say, I'm excited! I'm excited to hear what you got. "moonlight" is an incredible song to throw out there man, I like that. I dig the song and shout out to BandLab. You might need to come give me a tip or two or something. I've worked with BandLab before, I didn't know that you were able to produce that quality of music. That's insane.

k3ko 

Yeah, I didn't know you could do that either. Because I know about GarageBand and other mobile or easier apps to make music on, but when I heard about BandLab I was like, "Oh this is cool."

Sanni Brown 

It is really cool. It really is. It clearly is a resource, so local artists, that's a resource. I think in the community, there's the family favorites that everybody likes. So this is my first time actually hearing this quality of music and BandLab in the same conversation. So I'm super impressed. I'm about to bother my boss to get this "moonlight" on here, and we will be looking out for that tape drop. So we'll be looking out for the Forever mixtape by k3ko. In the meantime, how can we keep up with you? Or are you one of those artists that like to be in the cut? (Laughs)

k3ko 

I love interacting with people. I love posting and promoting, but I do get into a little bubble sometimes. Because I'm an energy person, I think a lot and I feel a lot, so sometimes I can overthink how I present myself on the media, but I really don't do too much. I be on Instagram, that's my main platform for just interacting with people or promoting my music. I think it's easy. I think it's fun. I think Instagram has also grown to be more of a platform that you can do that on, so I'm glad to be a part of that, but that's where I am. I used to do a lot more performances for parties and shows and stuff like that, but since I've been more in the R&B route of music, I haven't done too much of the party lit stuff. I don't want to be a hyperpop artist. I like the upbeat and the fun dance stuff, but I'm a singer. I love singing and I love emotional music, so that's how I want to present myself as an artist.

k3ko performing in 2023

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Sanni Brown 

I love that. I love that so much. I grew up in the 90s, R&B was real heavy in the 90s. I know hip-hop made a big footprint between the 90s and now. So it's so nice to see R&B artists being like, "No, I'm an R&B artist. I sing." I am so excited to hear Forever. I'm so excited. How can we support you as an artist? What can we do to support you? And not just us here at Carbon Sound obviously, but listeners, fans. How can we support you? Look out for that tape Forever (laughs).

k3ko 

I guess I could just say, I make real music. And I feel like the things that I sing about, and the things that I make music about — I can make a million songs, but it takes a lot of emotion, and it takes a lot of going through stuff to come out with these songs.

Sanni Brown 

It sounds like you're more focused on how your songs are influencing people. You're not worried about numbers and stuff like that. You just want the music to touch.

k3ko 

Yeah, because I know that especially this generation and the time for music right now is very fast paced, there's a lot of artists in and out. And I feel like it's because a lot of the stuff is just trendy or it's just for the moment. But I would love to make timeless music, and I feel like I make music that you should listen to. I don't know how to explain that. I don't think all the power is in my hands to do this. There's a lot of beautiful artists out there that can do the same thing. But I kind of want to bring that back to music, like people actually feeling music and being like, "This song got me through something" or "This song made me realize something." I guess what you said, I do want to influence through the music.

Sanni Brown 

That's what I do on this show! I've come from a rough background. So I talk about how — I literally use music, like "This song got me through." So I adore your answer. And obviously, you want to be successful at what you do, but it sounds like you're not measuring it by "Go buy this" and merch, but sit with the music. k3ko says "Sit with the music." Love it! Thank you so much for coming in.

k3ko 

Of course!

Sanni Brown 

And for real, sharing your vibe. They need to bottle you up and put you at the help stores (laughs). I appreciate you, and I really appreciate your answer and how you are showing up for your music. Forever is the mixtape that we are looking for, for k3ko, Minneapolis based artist, thank you so much for coming in.

k3ko 

Thank you for having me.

Sanni Brown 

Yay!

Ahead of her Minneapolis stop on the 1 of 1 Reflections of Lyte Tour, legendary hip-hop artist MC Lyte chatted with Carbon Sound’s host Sanni Brown. In her interview, she talked about her most recent album, her esteemed career, and more.

Sanni Brown 

So you are out on tour for your most recently dropped album, 1 of 1, and just judging from the featured artists, I feel like this is credibility, this is clout. This is Queen Latifah, Common, Lil Mama, Mary Mary, Muni Long. You got old school, you got new school. Could you just give us a little bit of insight on how that all came together, this album?

MC Lyte 

Absolutely. Well, working with Warryn Campbell, the multi-platinum award, Grammy nominee, winning, he has just accomplished so much. And so with working with him, we kind of think alike. We weren't thinking about the guest until the song was done. And as the song started to be developed, we said, "Oh, you know, this feels like so and so would good be good on this" or the song with Common and Stevie Wonder, that music just calls for both of them. And so it was pretty simple, thinking of who we wanted. Now getting who we wanted just fell into place because most of the people are actually friends, people that I know, people we grew up in this business together. I think the only person that I didn't know was Ghostface Killah, and when I reached out to him, he was like, "Oh queen! Oh my god! Can I tell you — ‘I Cram To Understand U’ got me through." When he was in prison, he was listening to MC Lyte. And he had a certain amount of admiration, just as I do for his work, and so it was pretty easy to make all of the guest appearances happen. And for the second installment, we've got Toni Braxton, we got Slick Rick, Anthony Hamilton. So we already have songs lined up for the next go round.

Sanni Brown 

Oh my goodness.

MC Lyte 

I think the whole album is just a spiritual reflection of what it is that I've gone through for the last 10, 12 years, and I just tried to encapsulate it in some lyrics, so that people could really understand not just where I am — as fans, people want to know where are you in your life, because it leads to some sort of inspiration, or can lead to some inspiration for others. It was also just me coming to terms with where I am in hip-hop and what I am allowing myself to be or call entertainment. It was just a whole new way to approach a record and to let God be the guiding light for it.

Sanni Brown 

I really have questions about your earlier career. What do you feel like you were determined about earlier on in your rap career? And right now during this album, do you feel like you've accomplished that?

MC Lyte 

Well, in the beginning it was just letting my generation know about drugs. I had seen drugs take many people out, members of my family, people on the street, people I went to school with were killed selling drugs, taking drugs, being involved with someone who sells them or takes them. It's just a downward spiral. And so I knew from the first song, "I Cram To Understand U," that I wanted to be able to impart that to young people, to my generation. And for this album, yes, I think for all it is that I addressed, it's really up to the listener. You know what I mean? There are Bibles everywhere, but does everybody pick them up? And those who pick it up, are they actually able to decipher the parables? Yes, there is something in there for everyone, but will everyone get it? I don't know. So I kind of feel the same way about musically and lyrically how we approached this record. There's something for everyone, but you got to be in an open state of mind in order to be able to receive it.

Sanni Brown 

You said you let the listener determine that. And I hear from artists that that's difficult. I see some artists get upset or get offended. Have you always been like that, where you just let the art speak for itself? Or is that something you've had to develop throughout your career?

MC Lyte 

No, I let the art speak for itself. I can't make you get it, you know? It's up to the listener. You either get it or — I can't make you (laughs), you know? I think it's great that there are some universities out there that really have taken a deep dive into hip-hop and lyricism, and their main goal is to decipher and break down every part of a song, which I think can be beneficial for those who enjoy that part of it. But some people are not — they're all for what's on the fascia. If that's the case, then they get what they get to please them. And others who are looking for more can be fed because there's food under the food.

Sanni Brown 

Right. Can you please give us insight into what hip-hop was like earlier in your career and the challenges that women had to face? What did that culture look like?

MC Lyte 

I think for the most part, and I can only really speak for me and my experience. A lot of the guys, they looked at me as their little sister, which was great — until you start making some kind of moves, and then you face we're all on a show, but the guys don't want to go on before me, even though the promoter has billed me high on the bill, they're like, "No, I think it's better if Lyte —" and they never tell me. They always go to the promoter, and then the promoter has to come back and tell management "so and so would like to go on after" or either they don't show up to the venue, which makes me go on, and then I go on, and then they go on after me (laughs). So whatever they have to do to not go on before me is really funny. But for the mainstay of it, it's been a wonderful experience as a woman. Honestly, if I weren't, I don't know that I'd be in hip-hop, because it's so many men and it's such a competition amongst them, even when they're friends. I think I saw some interview with Jay Z and he was saying, when DMX got on that stage, nobody wanted to go after him. All he had to do was grunt in the mic and the whole crowd would just go crazy. So it's so much competition for men in the business. It has been, and it still is. And so I think the lane was kind of open for me and what it was that I was bringing.

Sanni Brown 

What are you the most excited to see about women in rap, modern day women in rap? What are you the most excited to see?

MC Lyte 

Right now? I just love that there's so many, and they're so different from one another, you know? What I really want to convey is that just because mainstream locks on to one or two, that just shows you how limited they are in their thinking. We can say, "Oh yeah, I'm like this one and this one and that one and that one!" We have a plethora of women on the mic that we enjoy at this present moment. And so I just don't want the others to be deterred in thinking that you're not hitting your mark. You're hitting your mark. Do what you do, the best way that you do it, run your lane, because everybody's got a separate lane right now, which I think is really exciting.

Sanni Brown 

I think it's exciting. So the 1 of 1 tour, what type of vibes can we expect?

MC Lyte  

People just show up in your best 90s gear, we’re taking it back. I'm really excited and honored at this stage in my career to be able to say, "Let's hit the road and let people know what this record is about." Because it's easy to say "The record is done. We put it out. It's over." And I'm like no, it's not over. I hear so many times from people that my generation doesn't like to explore new music from the OG artists. And I'm like, "I don't know that if I believe that." They say, "Yeah, they want to put on their playlist, and when they're looking for MC Lyte they're looking for the stuff that they already know."And I tend to think that my fan has a bigger capacity than that, so let's get out there and let them know that it exists. And so it's been fun so far. We've hit everywhere from Philly, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, a whole lot of places in between. We just came from Canada with Toronto and Ottawa, on the list we've got Chicago and Michigan and Louisville, Kentucky and St. Louis. We've got a lot of places to hit, and I'm just excited that Minneapolis is on the list.

Sanni Brown 

I love that. I love that so much. What's been your most enjoyable experience on tour so far?

MC Lyte 

Oh, goodness, I enjoy period, the level of intimacy. You know, it's a smaller crowd. Most times when I'm performing, I'm with three or four acts. We're in bigger arenas. It could be anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000 people. But now we get to scale this down, and we're in city wineries that are like 300 people, and then we're in other spots where capacity is somewhere between 500 to 1,000 and so it just lends itself to me being able to show a side of myself that people rarely get to see in those big arenas.

Sanni Brown 

To listen to an artist that's been in the game go, "Nope, I want something more intimate" and to say that it's about the music, I'm really hoping that young people catch that. That you've done the 10,000, done the 30,000, and that you're working towards a more intimate crowd to really connect with people on a musical level.

MC Lyte 

I consider myself blessed because I'm one of those that can go big and I can go small. It's a lot of them that are big that can't go small. It would look to people as a failure. When in fact, Prince didn't care if he only had 10 people in his house performing.

Sanni Brown 

Oh, we know (laughs).

MC Lyte 

Exactly. If anybody knows, y'all know right?

Sanni Brown 

Yeah, it didn't matter (laughs).

MC Lyte 

And that wasn't just at Paisley Park. When he came to L.A., I remember him playing in places that only held 150 people. I saw him in New York City, where the place only held 75 people. So it's like, who are you as an artist? Are you ready to be exposed on another level? The crazy thing is, you can feel great in a house party with 500 people, because you can hide, but when there's only 50 people in the house, you're gonna be seen and you're gonna be heard, and you will leave yourself open to judgment. And so I like this level of intimacy because we get to talk.

Sanni Brown 

We are so excited to have you. And just again, thank you so much for taking time off to talk to us and talking to a woman in rap. I am so inspired by you. I'm so excited that you are coming to Minneapolis. And honestly, I can't wait to see you when you get here.

MC Lyte 

I look forward to meeting you and thank you for the platform. And thank you for the line of questions. I look forward to seeing the city. God bless you.

Sanni Brown  

God bless you too. Thank you, MC Lyte. Thank you so much.

MC Lyte 

You got it. Take care.

Sanni Brown 

Take care.

SYM1 stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound’s host Sanni about all things pop music.

Sanni Brown

Carbon Sound. I am so excited. I love having interviews. I love having them so much. In studio today is SYM1. And SYM1 is a Minneapolis-based hard dance, club, pop artist, producer, vocalist, and performer, as well as the co-owner of Freeze Pop Records, Carbon Sound family give it up for SYM1, yay! It's so cool to put a face to the songs that I've been putting into the show. That's so cool. Nice to meet you, wow!

SYM1 

It's great to meet you!

Sanni Brown

It's good for you guys to give your pitch speech, because I'm gonna give it from the fan stand perspective. So tell us who you are for those who have not met you and have not heard your music yet.

SYM1 

I feel like you summed it up perfectly, but one of the most cool ways that I've heard someone describe me before is an artist who makes irreverent dance music with a punk heart and a chronically online edge. And I was like, "that's me!" (Laughs)

Sanni Brown 

What did they mean by chronically online — that's so toxic. (Both laugh)

SYM1 

Well, that's me!

Sanni Brown

How do you incorporate that into music, into your sound? Because it's such a visual thing. And when I think of chronically online, I immediately think of argument. But that's not how your music sounds. Your music sounds free, like wild abandon. I feel like I'm about to go on a major shopping trip with my girls, and we about to spend like, $200 maybe $300 too much. That's how your music feels to me, like wild, free, girlish abandon.

SYM1 

I love that.

Sanni Brown

But they associate it with the toxicness of online. So help me understand! (Laughs)

SYM1 

Chronically online, I so resonate with being chronically online.

Sanni Brown

No judgments, no judgments. Me too. 

SYM1 

But not the angry parts of it. I think about this all the time, and I talk about it a lot, about how the internet, it wasn't such a toxic, angry space. It didn't always have that energy, but now it does. But it used to feel like — remember the golden era being online, and it just feeling like so exploratory and full of community and potential and discovery? It feels like that, it has that freedom, that wild abandon. And I feel like when I was growing up, I was very sheltered, so connecting with people online and playing video games was definitely —

Sanni Brown

Your window to the world?

SYM1 

Yes, so the sounds that I use, the references that I'll use, and the way that I perceive a lot of my life is also through that lens, so I think chronically online kind of comes from that.

Sanni Brown

I love that. Because I do think it's easy to just immediately think about the current state of the internet. And I was there during the golden days of the internet, when they were like, "this is a web page, and you want to look at who made the web page." (Laughs) And you're right, there was this element of — I think the program was called Internet Explorer. I don't know if it's still called that anymore, but that idea of exploration, and I grasped that from that song, "I Don't Have To Pay For This." I'm like, girl tell me more. Why you don't gotta pay for it, sis? Like, tell me more.

SYM1 

I'm so glad you liked that one. (Laughs)

Sanni Brown

No, because I heard it and I was like, no, I see myself in the Jeep. I see the doors down, the sun is shining. I'm not paying for any of this, you're gonna make it happen. And I like that. There's a very energetic and freeness to that. Do you think that that is connected to your — you said you had a sheltered childhood. Do you think that's connected to it? Are you allowing your inner child to come out in your music?

SYM1 

I 100% am. All of my music is almost directly a trauma response and working through all of my childhood trauma.

Sanni Brown

No but music is so therapeutic like that. So what is the process of doing that? Because I'm in school for rap, and we have a class called rhymeocology, and it's basically showing you how to channel all these really deep, dark things, and how to transfer it into our lyrics. And that class, I struggle the most, and so here you have sounds like "I Don't Have To Pay For This." You've done this so eloquently. So what's your process of taking these things that you've been through and then channeling them into lyrics and into sound and into a whole vibe, really.

SYM1 

I wish it was a more intentional and focused process, but it's really not for me. Generally, I'm making a beat, and then I am singing in gibberish over it, and I find the words through the gibberish and whatever resonates, I pick it out. And I don't even realize how much my music and my lyrics connect with me and what I've been through until much later.

Sanni Brown

So you let the song speak to you. I say that because when I talk to artists, they say the song has to (speak to you). So wait, you are the co-owner of Freeze Pop Records. And before I go further, because I like pop music, but what I find is that I think the world likes to go, "If you're a Black artist, you go hip-hop, or you go R&B, or maybe blues, if they really respect you." And so when I hear pop, and I see Black artists making pop, oooh! So what is pop to you?

SYM1 

Oh my gosh, it's everything. It's like, my first love.

Sanni Brown

It really is! I feel like that's the genre of youth. I really do feel like that. And so I found a Wyclef album that was pop. I didn't think it was pop. And I see Beyoncé songs that are pop, and I thought they were R&B. So you said it's everything, but what do you mean? Can you elaborate that pop is everything?

SYM1 

Pop is popular music, but what I consider pop is music that has a hook to it, like it has a pop structure. So it's gonna have probably a verse, maybe a pre-chorus, then the chorus, and the chorus being the hook. I like my pop to be very hooky. I guess I would describe it as that.

Sanni Brown

And every artist, hey. If Van Gogh can eat paint chips —

SYM1 

I feel like there are definitely different sonic qualities, like different sounds in pop music, in R&B, in rap music, in hip-hop, that you'll be like, "Ok, this is more solidly now that genre, because they're using these songs." Like you hear certain sounds, like quick hi hats, it's probably gonna be in a hip-hop song.

Sanni Brown

As a music consumer, we're just taking in you guys as vibes. We're not understanding the breakdown of things. And I'm nerdy. I like to see the bricks of how are you creating these vibes. But I want you to keep your juice to yourself.

SYM1 

Oh they could never repeat. (Laughs)

Sanni Brown

Very Prince! Okay, we're gonna pause right there. You got some events coming up, and so we're going to take a break right now, and I'm going to play some music, and then we're going to get back to SYM1, Minneapolis, based hard dance, club, pop artist, producer, vocalist, performer, as well as co-owner of Freeze Pop Records in the building. We will be right back. Do not go any place. We are in Music Class.

Sanni Brown

We are back with SYM1 on The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. We're in Music Class, and in music class, y'all know I like to break stuff down brick by brick. And so SYM1 has let us know — well, basically, I let y'all know and she agreed. She's the co-owner of Freeze Pop Records, Minneapolis based, hard dance, club, pop artist, producer, vocalist and performer. You've got some events coming up. Can you tell us about that? And what's the purpose of it?

SYM1 

So the next event that's coming up is on March 22 and that is the Hyper Pop Dance Party, it's now presented by Freeze Pop Records and Internet Kids are co-sponsoring it. We're co-sponsoring it together. I admire them so much, and they're some of my friends. I'm just so excited, and I'm bringing out an artist that actually is from New York City that is featured on my latest single, and her name is Moist Breezy, so she's coming through. We're gonna do the song together. She's gonna do a set. I'm gonna do a set. It's gonna be incredible.

Sanni Brown

And it's a dance party. What is the mindset behind making a show a dance party? What's that about? I mean, excuse me, I'm a dancer I love it, I know, but —

SYM1 

Sometimes you gotta tell them, "We're dancing, ok??" Because people, I think people forget.

Sanni Brown

You know what? You have a very good point, because I've performed for Minnesota audiences and what Minnesota audiences do, baby, they gonna give you their undivided attention. And so they don't always necessarily sway or dance or move. And I have been at shows and be like, "It's ok to dance!" And people start dancing. So that's why I see that here a lot. It's ok to dance Minnesota! Because Minnesota is just gonna sit there and watch.

SYM1  

They will sit and stare (laughs) —

Sanni Brown

Yes boo! I need somebody to come in and explain this to me. But it's undivided attention, it really is, and you got to respect it, I think once you actually understand what's going on. What can people expect? So you just said we're gonna dance, you just said Moist Breezy is gonna be performing, is Moist Breezy a DJ?

SYM1 

She is a DJ, but also a producer, vocalist, singer, performer, and she is a Eurodance artist, but she will be doing a live performance. Internet Kids will DJ, Evil Sound Guy is the DJ from Internet Kids, and he will be DJing. There will be CRT TVs stacked on top of each other, all playing glitchy things from early internet days and anime type stuff. The crowd will be dressed up in —

Sanni Brown

So you gotta dress up to go here?

SYM1 

You don't have to, but you'll stand out if you don't. It's like a rave at an anime convention, not a rave in an underground techno way.

Sanni Brown

Wow, I like that. I've never been to a rave — I have young people around me telling me what it is, because the raves that I had back in the 90s — not had but that they told us about, sounds scary. This sounds amazing. It sounds safe and fun and colorful. So is there anything else that (Freeze) Pop Records is doing that we need to be made aware of?

SYM1 

We are going to be having future events that are surrounded more so around community networking for pop artists.

Sanni Brown

So what's the deal with your — it's an artist led, community led label. Oh my gosh, we cannot end the show without this. Please let me know what that is about. Artist led, community led label. That's like foreign words to me. I've never heard of that before. What is that about?

SYM1  

It is so rare to have artistic development these days, anywhere. You have to normally go to New York or LA to get anything of the sort. And we want to bring that here and show Minnesotans, especially in the pop realm, that we have that community here, we have that talent here, and that we can do this together. We have lost a lot of our staples, as far as music education, music development has gone. McNally Smith, IPR are now no longer, and we would like to see just more programming and artistic development and opportunities for community, to get together, to grow together, because that's what it takes to have a good scene. So that's what we want.

Sanni Brown

I asked and you gave. You dropped so many nuggets in there. I was just talking to my fiancé about how I grew up with instruments in the classroom. One of the hours of my show is called music class, because music class was so influential to me. So that's why it's overwhelming, because this is an educational thing. And then you're pouring into the scene. Would you say that artist development is almost music education in a way?

SYM1 

Absolutely, yeah.

Sanni Brown

Do you feel like maybe that's why that's missing? People kind of feel like they can do without it?

SYM1 

No one's teaching it. They don't even know that they need it, because no one's teaching it. Artistic development, it takes the music side and the business side, the performance side, it takes all of those things. So when people just think music education, it's like, "Ok, learn music theory, learn how to read music, learn how to play an instrument." No, there's so much more.

Sanni Brown

We were in class late last night, and we're talking rhythm. It's called rhythm and style. Again, this type of stuff was in the schools when I was a young girl. And you're right. Rapping, people think you just get up on the mic and talk. No, baby. You need to know rhythms. When we hear people, old school rap is "boom bap, boom bap, boom." Now it's like "dadada dadada dadadada" (triplets) and if you do not understand that as an artist, your trick bag is gonna be really skinny. And so I'm so glad that you are using this work, not only to help actual artists, but to teach people the importance of the artist development. Wow, I'm sorry I had just had to walk through that again, everything that you just said. What inspired you to do that? Was there something that happened that you were like, "No, this needs to do this."

SYM1 

My own experiences of trying to find resources in Minnesota and within my community, and just not finding what I wanted to see, and finding other like-minded people who also feel that way, and then us getting together, doing events together, and then finally, being like, "You know what? Why don't we just do the dang thing?" Especially throughout the pandemic, we needed it more than ever then.

Sanni Brown

I'm hoping somebody that's listening is paying attention to how the Minnesota music scene evolved. Because I hear a lot of artists come in here and be like, "Oh, we started that during the pandemic" and now it's a full-fledged business that's serving artists. So SYM1, where can we find you? I'm stalking you, but where can we find you? So we can hear more music dropping.

SYM1 

Anywhere you listen to music, I'll be there. My website is no1butsym1.com, my social media is also no1butsym1.

Sanni Brown

And March 22 is the Hyper Pop Dance Party 6. It's SYM1's birthday bash?? Does that make you an Aries?

SYM1 

I'm an Aries! (Laughs)

Sanni Brown

Oh yeah! Ok ok, see, I'm a Leo. That’s that fire! Birthday bash and release party with Moist Breezy and DJ sets. I love it. I love your music. I love what you're doing. I love the shopping day girl vibes, okay, yes boo! I can't wait to hear more music from you. And thank you for what you're doing for the Minnesota music scene.

SYM1 

Thank you.

Sanni Brown 

SYM1, everybody. Hey, don't go any place. I still got music for you. We are in Music Class. Hey, so don't go no place. It's The Message, Carbon Sound, Music for Life.

David Smith sat down with Carbon Sound’s host Sanni and talked about his journey in music production and arranging for live shows, his new band (@0308band) that’s bringing a modern feel to the Minneapolis Sound, and more.

Sanni Brown 

It's The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life, Sanni here. We got a new interview, and I got questions! Minnesota musician, producer, programmer, arranger and more. Hold on. Let me run the receipts. Arranged, programmed Shaboozey's BET Award performances, played and programmed keydrums for Kehlani's WNBA All Star performance, programmed and arranged an outro for Latto's high-rated performance at the Billboard Music Awards. And baby, we would be here 30 more minutes if I kept talking about the receipts. Carbon Sound family, welcome David Smith, yay!

David Smith 

Thanks it's an honor to be here.

Sanni Brown 

It's an honor for you to be here, wow! It's almost three years we've been on the map, and so we got folks like this stepping in here? See y'all coming in and y'all do the things you're doing, and y'all always like this, but I love it. That's one of the things I love about Minnesota music scene, is you guys are heat, but you so laid back and humble and calm (laughs).

David Smith 

(Laughs) Yeah, I guess so.

Sanni Brown 

You just chill. And I can appreciate it, but it's just weird (laughs). I'll ask you this, do you see a lot of humility in people, in what you do?

David Smith 

Like others in the area?

Sanni Brown 

And people who are really good, who are like you. You have an amazing resume, like this is an art person's dream. This is to me, a musician's dream. So in your field of work, and what you've seen, do you see a lot of humility, people that are doing big things, but are just humble?

David Smith 

Yeah I would say so. One person that definitely comes to mind is Jovonta Patton, the gospel singer. He definitely is really humble in what he does. He's a very grateful person, very humble. And even though he's done so many really cool things, when you interact with him, it's just like talking to a friend or family member. So I think people like him are what helps keep things going and helps keep all of us humble.

Sanni Brown 

That's something that sticks out, like you've done all this immense stuff and you're just normal (laughs). So let's jump into the questions, what are some of your earliest experiences with music.

David Smith 

I think I've been involved with music as long as I can remember. There's even a little picture of me somewhere, of me on one of those little baby pianos. But I actually originally started out with the love for drums. So my older brother was a drumming prodigy growing up. And so being the three- or four-year-old that I was, I was like, "Hey, I want to play drums." And so I learned at some point, but I was so young I don't even actually remember learning the drums.

Sanni Brown 

But you just know the drums is your thing?

David Smith 

Yeah.

Sanni Brown 

That's crazy, so you just took to it?

David Smith 

Right. Yep, exactly.

Sanni Brown 

Wow. So then we go from drums to — what happens after that?

David Smith 

The piano.

Sanni Brown 

That's a jump. My sibling did drums. I did piano.

David Smith 

Yeah, we had a piano at home, and my mom had taken a college class years ago, and she was able to teach me the little that she remembered from that. And I was able to just take that and kind of create my own world with it.

Sanni Brown 

So what were you doing after that? You just going around the house, beating on stuff, playing keyboard? (Laughs)

David Smith 

Yeah, pretty much. We had drums in the basement, we had a piano upstairs. It was really cool to grow up in that type of environment where playing music was encouraged. And so I eventually took some lessons and stuff.

Sanni Brown 

So I just jumped right in like everybody knows exactly who you are. Why don't I let you tell us who you are? For those who are unfamiliar with you, who don't know how you linked in to all of these amazing acts and all of the work that you do, tell us who you are.

David Smith 

Yeah so, if you didn't know already (both laugh), my name is David Smith. I'm a musician, and I grew up playing in church, so that's my home. I still play at the same church that I grew up at. My dad is the pastor of that church, Christ Temple in Roseville. And since then, I've learned more instruments than just piano and drums. I also picked up the bass while I was in high school, and I also played the trumpet as well, and also the organ too. That's my favorite instrument. Of course, I grew up in church playing the organ.

Sanni Brown 

Are you silly with the organ? I noticed people who play the organ, they have a sense of humor, the timing.

David Smith 

I mean, maybe. (Both laugh)

Sanni Brown 

Maybe that's just the church I went to (laughs). So basically you grew up playing instruments in the church. So then what happens after you grow up? Now you have all this musical knowledge. What do you do?

David Smith 

I eventually started getting into production and live show programming when I was in high school. I started out just putting shows together and stuff for a talent show, and also just making beats and stuff on my computer when I was in high school. So that was like my beginners phase, but I had no idea what that would eventually turn into. I was just like, I'm just doing this for fun, just for the love of it. I see a lot of other people on YouTube making live arrangement covers to songs and stuff. I was like, hey, you know what? I'm really inspired by that. I want to try it too. So that's how I kind of got into the live production scene and whatnot.

Sanni Brown 

So before we get into your grown man stuff, I want to pause right here. I want to put on some music for life, and then I really want you to touch on all of this arrangement that you've done, because this is like the building blocks to all of the vibes (laughs). And I want everybody to understand that this is the meat. And so we're gonna get into that coming up next. I got some music for life. This is Music Class I am in with David Smith, Minnesota musician, producer, programmer, arranger, and so much more. And the more you're gonna have to stick around to find out. It's The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. Don't go anyplace.

Sanni Brown

It's The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. We are in Music Class. Sanni here with David Smith, Minnesota musician, producer, programmer, and arranger. For those of you who don't know, the vibes that you guys like, this is the building blocks. This is what needs to happen before we get into the vibe part. So David Smith, so far you've talked about you grew up in the church. You started out with drums, keyboards, you took right to it. You're doing live shows in high school, and now you are an adult. What do you do with all of this live show experience? Where do you go from there?

David Smith 

Yeah, I think after that — well, because then the pandemic happens, right? I graduated high school in 2019, and then my my freshman year was cut short, or cut to online, and so I was just at home, and it was summer, so I'd find stuff to do and I had a friend of mine from Canada, and we worked on just making a lot of live arrangements and live programming together. So that's how I kind of got into just doing it a lot more. And so eventually, after about a year of doing that, the opportunity came up for me to be able to showcase some of my live arrangements to somebody that's arranged and programmed for for some artists with notability. So I was able to play one of my arrangements, they were like, "Hey, let's work" and after a couple months or so, that turned into me eventually doing my first live arrangement for SZA.

Sanni Brown

Wow. Now pause before you go any further, what does arrangement mean?

David Smith 

So a live arrangement is basically taking a piece of music from an artist and —

Sanni Brown

Then changing it to making it sound good live??

David Smith 

Exactly.

Sanni Brown

Woah, you gonna have to break that down. I mean, don't give us all your tea, because you need it for what you do but —

David Smith 

Oh no, I could give a general overview.

Sanni Brown

Oh my gosh. How do you do that?

David Smith 

So basically what will happen is somebody from the artist camp or their music director, what they'll do is they'll send me what are called stems — stems or multi-tracks. So stems are basically all the individual pieces of the song, like the drums, the vocals, you know, every single thing so that way I can use my creativity to do what's needed for the live performance. So if there's a section where maybe we need to take out the drums or something, then I have the flexibility to be able to do that with stems. But now sometimes, there's not always a time where you're able to get the stems from somebody. And so now there's a software and a company that I partnered with called Moises AI, and basically what they do is they're able to separate the stems for you. So that way, if there's a situation where somebody's not able to send the stems, AI is able to separate out the bass, the drums, everything else that you might be able to need.

Sanni Brown

Okay, that is legit the first good use of AI that I've heard since I've heard of AI. This is the type of stuff I need. I'm sorry that's mind blowing. Because I've always wondered, how do they get it to sound like — who's all the people you've done this for?

David Smith 

Yeah so one of them, as you mentioned earlier, was Shaboozey. That one was done along with Dennard Watson from Philly and Baltimore. And I also did that one for SZA. And she used that one originally for like an online performance back in 2021, but she eventually used that arrangement of "Gardens" for her tour, and it's also on the the Apple Music live album as well. And then another one was GIVĒON. I was able to do the intro for his tour back in like 2022, and then another one was for this big Indian artist named Karan Aujla. He's based out of Toronto, at least most of his camp is, and that actually led to me eventually being able to go on tour with him, and I ended up in the UK at The O2 Arena.

Sanni Brown

Wow! My goodness. My mind is blown, because I think when people think about working in the music business, I think they always think about the front facing stuff, the performing, and this is just this whole world back here.

David Smith  

Yeah, a lot of people don't know about this.

Sanni Brown

So who's been your favorite show to arrange?

David Smith 

Honestly, it was probably the Karan Aujla stuff that I got to do, because it was really fun. His music is very — it's like you get a different party with each song, a different message with each song, and it was also a unique challenge, because it's all in a different language. The funny part is, when I'm listening to music, I'm barely paying attention to the lyrics anyway (laughs). I'm hearing everything, like every single drum —

Sanni Brown

Isn't it easier when you're familiar with the song, though?

David Smith 

I mean yeah, but also, I feel like I can tell where the important moments are based on how he's singing.

Sanni Brown

Is that musician instinct?

David Smith 

Yeah, you could say that.

Sanni Brown

Okay wow! I'm nerdy, this is so cool (both laugh). What are some of the highlights of being a musician and being in this position helping other musicians?

David Smith 

Yeah I think one thing I enjoy doing is being able to put people on, especially that are from here. So whenever I see an up and coming musician that's doing really well, and I see that they're qualified enough to do something, I'll start instantly recommending them to other people. I'll be like, "Oh, hey. You need this? Oh yeah, grab this person right here. They're definitely ready for the job."

Sanni Brown

Why do you like that?

David Smith 

Well, because somebody did it for me. That's how I ended up getting the SZA thing. That's how I've gotten a whole lot of opportunities. One person I specifically want to credit is is Arthur L.A. Buckner. L.A. has been a mentor to me ever since I was in high school, and he's definitely helped propel me to the point to where I am in the in the local music scene, for sure. Because he's been that guy advocating for me behind closed doors like, "Hey, this guy is really dope. You should hire him for this, this and that." I thought about this the other day, if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have gotten the opportunity with SZA, because the artist's song that I showed to the guy that put me onto that gig, was recommended to me by L.A. So it was like, L.A. recommended me to the other artists, and then I took that arrangement from that collaboration, to the person that was connected with the SZA camp.

David and L.A performing together

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Sanni Brown

Artists on the scene, do you see that? That connection? I'm hoping that when artists are listening, because we've had other artists come in and say their network and how they're connected, and how much of it is putting each other on, making suggestions. People who want to see you win help you win.

David Smith 

Exactly.

Sanni Brown

Wow, I'm still stuck on you back there with all that juice. Because since I was little, and you see the shows, and you're like, who decides? How do you decide when to throw a "dun dun"? How do you make the decision? Do they decide that and then there's like a skeleton outline?

David Smith 

Yeah sometimes the artist will have an idea in mind, but usually, it's something that takes lots of experience and time to really be able to do. Because sometimes I'll look at some of my earlier work, I'm like, "Oh, man, I wouldn't have put this thing there or that thing there." Because a lot of it you just kind of learn from just listening to different live arrangements and people that have done TV shows, Super Bowls, and whatever, over time. So a lot of that, you know, like I was saying, just comes from from listening and and working on it, because it doesn't come to you quickly. There's still times where you can come up with something super dope, and the artist is like, "You know what? I don't want all of this here. I just want it to sound like the record." So it all kind of depends on the artist preference too. It hasn't happened to me a bunch, but to some peers of mine, there's been times where they will come up with this really dope arrangement or something, and the artist will be like, "You know what? I think I want to scale it back a little bit." And they have to scale it back. At the end of the day, it's like the artist is your boss, and you gotta make them happy.

Sanni Brown

What's been the most eye opening thing about what you do?

David Smith 

I think the most eye opening thing about what I do is how it is able to open up opportunities in other areas, outside of just arranging. So, as I gave an example earlier, after I arranged the set for Karan Aujla, they eventually invited me back to play keys for their UK run when their main keyboardist was out because he had a baby on the way. I didn't have to audition or anything, like no rehearsals.

Sanni Brown 

I was gonna say, your audition was when they originally called you. I've learned that. I'm giving free game right now. I treat every gig like the audition for my next potential gig. And it sounds like you passed the test on that one (both laugh). So young folks, if you in entertainment, every gig that you get and you secure, that is your audition for the next gig, because people are seeing you. And I love hearing stories about people taking advantage of a gig, and it leading from one thing to the next. Is there any wisdom or advice that you can give people who are maybe a little bit earlier in their career than you are, music wise?

David Smith 

Yeah, especially for people here, build a client base outside of just people from Minnesota. Because I feel like I've been pretty successful with that, also partly because of the pandemic. So it's just like, I couldn't only work with people that were here, because then there's only so many people you can work with. So I spent that time just slowly connecting with different people over social media and different parts all over the world. So work with people outside of just here, because then that also helps you get respect from people that are from here because I feel like a lot of people from here won't respect you as much if you're only doing stuff here. But if they hear "Oh, hey, they're doing stuff in the UK. They're doing stuff all over here. Oh, people are playing to your tracks all over the world, what?" So I feel like that has helped me gain a little bit of notability here, because I've been able to reach great heights outside of just the Minnesota area.

Sanni Brown 

I had to go to school in St Louis to come back here (laughs). So what's next? Man, you sound like you got a really exciting career. What's next? Are you working on anything? Obviously you working with these big folks, you gotta be quiet. Are you working on anything for yourself?

David Smith  

Yeah, I actually just announced a new band of mine called 0308.

Sanni Brown 

Tell me what's that about? What is the number, the significance of that?

David Smith 

When I was growing up, a lot of my usernames just had 0308, because that's my birthday. So I was just like, you know what, that'd be a cool band name just to have that. But yeah, it's gonna be a lot of funk fusion. I really want to bring back the Minneapolis sound.

Sanni Brown 

I read that! A modern Minneapolis sound you're looking for. So what? How would you describe the current Minneapolis sound? And then how would you describe, what you trying to do?

David Smith 

The current Minneapolis sound (or more notable one), that's like Prince Jimmy Jam, The Time, Mint Condition. So like all of that, where it sounds really lively, very synth heavy, very funky, fast pace. I'm trying to figure out a way to bring that back in today.

Pillars of the Minneapolis Sound

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Sanni Brown 

I like that, yeah! Well, I'ma support you. I honestly, until I started working in radio, I didn't know what the Minneapolis sound was. It was just music that I liked. I didn't know it was an actual category. And so yes, I want to support that. Any effort that you have, I want to support that. So where can we find you? How can we keep up with you?

David Smith 

Yeah, you can follow me on any platform, @dsmithprod, that's also my website, dsmithprod.com, and just tune in for more updates. Who knows, maybe I'll be on another tour or something at some point.

Sanni Brown 

Maybe (both laugh). If y'all was looking at this resume right here, you'd be a little insulted with the maybe, okay, that maybe is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Thank you, David Smith, for coming in and taking time out to share your illustrious resume and your awesome, dope background. Thank you for coming in today.

David Smith 

Thanks, no problem. It was an honor to be here. I've been following the platform for a while. I was like, "Man, I would love to be on there at some point." So when I got the invite, I was like, oh, yeah, definitely.

Sanni Brown 

If we ever start doing live performances or something like that, would you be open to doing something like that?

David Smith 

Oh, definitely.

Sanni Brown  

Oh my goodness! Okay. Back in the day, they said on wax. We got this on — it's digital now (laughs), but thank you again.

David Smith 

Yeah, thank you!

Sanni Brown 

It is The Message Carbon Sound Music for Life.

Inayah from SoulFlower stopped by to talk to Carbon Sound's host Sanni about how SoulFlower came together, the band's busy February, and more.

Sanni Brown 

It is The Message, Carbon Sound Music for life, Sanni here in Music Class. And as I promised all week, I got in the studio SoulFlower. I am new to SoulFlower. So this intro is for everybody, including SoulFlower, or Inayah from SoulFlower, is in with us today. And Inayah is from the Twin Cities band SoulFlower that will be opening up for Dua Saleh at the Fine Line on Sunday, February 16. Remember I mentioned that to y'all at the beginning of the month? So in studio, Inayah from SoulFlower, yay!

Inayah 

Thank you for having me!

Sanni Brown 

Of course! Thank you for being available.

Inayah 

I'm so sad the rest of my band couldn't be here, but —

Sanni Brown 

Are they working? I know bands work four different jobs.

Inayah 

Yeah, Zeke's actually getting a tooth surgery.

Sanni Brown 

Oh no, not that kind of work! Well, welcome. We'll keep them in our spirit, because you gonna be answering some questions on behalf of them anyway (laughs). So welcome to Carbon Sound Studios. First of all, I'm a super fan. The song that we have is "Passion," that we've been playing, and I feel like it takes me back to when I was a little girl on a Saturday morning, and we're getting up and we're going to the corner store to get some candy or something. It's just such a carefree, fun, lighthearted song. And so before we get into how you made that, how did SoulFlower come to be? Because I thought you were just a one person thing, and you're a band. So put us on, how did SoulFlower come to be?

Inayah 

SoulFlower came to be from a series of jams and shows and exploring with other artists in the Twin Cities. I've been making music by myself for a while and playing the bass and writing songs, and then I got the chance to play in a band for the first time. Super low key, was in an apartment.

Sanni Brown 

When you say played, you mean like an instrument or sing?

Inayah 

So I was playing bass and I was singing. And then playing with other people at the same time. At the time when it was feeling really fresh, it was super gut wrenching, in the sense of, like, "I've always wanted to do this, and now I'm doing it." And it's not that big or unreachable or unattainable as I maybe thought it was. I didn't need to know my bass for like, 8, 10 years to finally sit in with people or whatever.

Sanni Brown 

So you didn't know how to play — you didn't play bass that long?

Inayah 

I picked it up in high school. I wasn't very consistent with it. And 2022, 2023 is when I really started to play it more, and play it every day, and write more songs with it.

Sanni Brown 

Of all instruments, why bass? I am flabbergasted by people that play bass.

Inayah 

I would love to ask my high school self. I don't know, I was just drawn to it, just magnetic. I don't know, I just was pulled towards the bass. And writing songs with a bass, I wouldn't say it's unconventional, but it's only a few people who will write a song to a bass line.

Sanni Brown 

Yes! I totally understand. So you're playing bass, you're kind of being introduced to it, kind of feeling it out, and then what happens after that? Are you getting noticed, or what's happening?

Inayah 

The way that it has just flowed for the past couple years has been — I don't want to say effortless, because there's been a lot of work put in, and all that stuff.

Sanni Brown 

Would you say authentic?

Inayah 

Authentic and like a flow to it. Each moment leads to another moment, leads to another opportunity. And the things that I'm controlling is myself and my voice and my expression, and from me expressing myself, I'm connecting with other people who love to express themselves or have whatever connection to expressing themselves that they do. So how it came to be as a band is just meeting folks who supported me. That makes me feel, actually, a little bit emotional now, because it really was just people who just cared for me and what I was doing. And when I sung with people, or played bass or whatever, there was a connection there, and people are just lovely, I don't know. Just showed love and wanted to continue to help me and see me share my music. So I'm grateful to all my friends and the people who have walked with me to where I am now on this musical journey, and my band now I met through The Cherry Pit, from different jams and these shows that we would put on. And hitting up Matt, hitting up Freakwhensee, like, "Yo!" I didn't know him at the time, but I saw him on Instagram, and saw he was a guitarist, and I hit him up. I was like, "Yo, you should come to this jam, you should come to this show.” And he did. And from then on, it was like he was around. And then Matt, I'm gonna call him Matt, his his stage name is Freakwhensee. This is one of my guitarists of the band. And Matt knew Zeke, which is the drummer, and they've known each other for a couple years. Matt kind of had Zeke in the back of his mind, of a drummer that he knew, and really looked up to.

SoulFlower performing at Cherry Pit

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Sanni Brown 

So you told Matt, "Pull up to the function, I'm performing." And then Matt pulls up. You blow it out the spot. And then he says, "Hey, I know a drummer."

Inayah 

And this didn't all happen in the same day, but yes.

Sanni Brown 

Right. You use the word magnetic. And I love seeing the magnetism of groups in music, and I don't want to lose it.

Inayah 

So then, when we first formed was two guitarists, and it was Matt, and it was my good friend Eilif, who plays with The Dregs. And Eilif played with us for the first couple months, and then dropped out to focus on his own music. And then my friend Niko, who is a visual artist, who I started living with 2023, he introduced me to his friend, Victor.

Sanni Brown 

I love seeing the universe be like, "Come, and come!" and then you're just sitting there and this whole thing is just forming around you. This is The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. I am with Inayah from the band SoulFlower. If you ever listen to my show, I be playing out "Passion," and that's on both the streams, whether it's The Current or Carbon Sound. And so big fan here, we're gonna take a break, because we got into how you guys got together, and then I want to know the creative process, because after all that magic comes together, I want to know what y'all doing with it. So again, this is The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. Sanni here, your radio friend in with Inayah from local band, SoulFlower. Don't go any place. This is Music Class.

Sanni Brown 

We are back. It's The Message, Carbon Sound Music for Life. I'm so excited. I have Inayah from local band SoulFlower. I gotta slow down my thoughts. Okay, so if you missed it, we went over how SoulFlower came together, and how the universe has this magical juice that just pulled you together and form people around you. And you were doing music yourself, and then you jammed out, told a friend, and then a friend told a friend, a friend told a friend, and boom, we got SoulFlower. And so what are y'all doing with all that energy? Because I can hear it in "Passion." There is something very special about that song. If you have not listened to it, go listen to it. Or just keep listening to this show, because we gonna play it. So what is the creative process for you guys? What does that look like?

Inayah 

We rehearse two times a week on a continuous basis, not just for upcoming shows. I do all the songwriting, and then rehearsal, we really just try to hone in and listen and we jam a lot.

Sanni Brown 

I'm glad you said that, because when I was younger and I first started learning, I first started learning how to do keyboard, my music teacher would have me do jam outs. So what is that about? What does that look like? What does that sound like? What does that feel like?

Inayah 

It usually just starts when we're setting up our instruments and tuning up. If we've been working on stuff by ourselves, you know, sometimes Victor will start playing the most loveliest riff, or like the most loveliest tune on his guitar, and then Freakwhensee will jump right in with something that goes with it, but is rhythmically challenging it, and then Zeke hops in. Because Zeke is just literally a wizard, like, the coolest, the best on the drums. And then words and melodies kind of just come to me so when I think too much about what I want to say, or what I want the melody to be then it kind of like goes away.

Sanni Brown 

I have that as well. Can you talk to trusting yourself and just letting it come to you and trusting whatever comes to you?

Inayah 

It's not easy. I'm so thankful to have a space, and the space is built by like the people that's in it. So I'm grateful to have a band that I feel so comfortable to be vulnerable around. To be open to trying and saying vulnerable and different things.

Sanni Brown 

So there needs to be a level of vulnerability for you to be able to do that.

Inayah 

Amongst everybody, amongst the group.

Sanni Brown 

Do you feel like that was already established when you guys kind of pulled together, just off you guys knowing each other? Or is that established through you guys all coming together and creating together?

Inayah 

I think both. We're all very introspective people and kind and empathetic and compassionate. And I think since we respect each other so much and actually care about one another outside of just the music, it's so easy to feel each other and to lock in when we get to actually playing music. And the magic comes from just all of our different experiences with our instruments. Some of us went to school, or some of us started when we were really, really young. Some of us just started in the past three, four years, or whatever it may be. And most of us are self taught. So we're really just writing with that intuition because music is life and is innate in our bodies, in our being. So there's so many times where I'll do something and they'll have the music theory for it. But I didn't — I just liked what I heard and kept playing it.

Sanni Brown 

But you need that though! It's interesting because you need that. And it's interesting too that you said you guys are all coming from different musical backgrounds, but the one thing that connects you guys is you being human, and that innate ability to connect within yourself. What are you learning in this space among all of this universe juice?

Inayah 

As someone that is in the band and also manages the band, I'm learning a lot about being more open with where I'm at. If I'm stressed, or sometimes I like to put on a little front that everything is handled and everything is cool, which, yeah, it is, but at the same time I'm low key like, it's overwhelming. Sometimes a girl just wants to play her guitar and not answer emails (laughs). I just want to be in the flow and not the logical structure of it. And I'm learning a lot about balancing that. And they give me so much grace and love and support throughout that process. And that's been very lovely. And I'm also learning how to listen more.

Sanni Brown 

What kind of listen? There's different types of listen (laughs).

Inayah 

All around listen more —

Sanni Brown 

Because you are talking about intuition, that's a different type of listening versus your ears. That's why I ask.

Inayah 

I think listening to my gut and I'm speaking to listening to intuition, and I'm speaking to listening to you have drums going, you got a guitar going, then you got another guitar going. Then I'm singing over all of it, and then I'm trying to play the bass??

Sanni Brown 

Okay, because this is what the average music listener, that's what we thinking. Like, you're doing all that?? You blew me at the beginning of the interview, when you said you're singing and doing bass.

Inayah 

I'm just trying to do my best. Like there's not a lot of singers and bass players — there's a lot, and I just have deep respect, because they just do it with grace, and they do it with their own style. And that's too, what I'm learning is my style, because I feel like I haven't even been playing bass long enough to — like it's there, initially, of course, but I'm growing into it more. And that's what also gets me excited too, is like, we've only been playing for two years. I'm 22.

Sanni Brown 

Okay! Y'all fresh. So where can we see this? You guys got any upcoming shows?

Inayah 

We do! This February, we're a little bit booked and busy. Valentine's Day, you can bring yourself and your boo out to Zhora Darling, because we're gonna be playing with LASALLE and Vinny Franco and the Love Channel. So that's February 14. On the 16th, we're playing at Fine Line, opening up for Dua Saleh and XINA, which is just a beautiful, beautiful bill.

SoulFlower opening up for Dua Saleh at Fine Line

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Sanni Brown 

I know, that's an insane bill. I talked about it on the local show at the beginning of the month. I let everyone know SoulFlower gonna be in here.

Inayah 

And then we're headlining Icehouse, February 26 with LASALLE again, ChocVillah and GR3G The Poet. So it's gonna be a beautiful — hip hop, R&B, you know, whatever our genre of music is (laughs).

Sanni Brown 

But you said you're still discovering it, you're still finding it. For the music listener, I like watching an artist find themselves and develop themselves and being vulnerable enough to let humans be like, "Hey, we're going through it too." But you guys just give us beautiful music (laughs). It sound chaos when we do it. But I didn't ask this. How would you describe your sound? If people are coming to go see you, what kind of sound and vibe should they expect?

Inayah 

I'm gonna pull from just what I've heard from people, and what you should expect is just soothing music, but also it's energetic music at the same time. Like we're not gonna put you to sleep, we're definitely gonna make you ponder a little bit. We definitely try to bring a genuine flow to our sets, like not trying to make it too "you're the audience and we're the performers."

Sanni Brown 

It's like a community.

Inayah 

Yes, we're trying to bring how we play in rehearsal, we're trying to bring that comfortability on stage to make you feel like you're in that rehearsal space with us. It's intimate, but we're gonna make you dance. We're gonna make you sway. It's a great array of R&B and a little bit of a rock in there, and a little bit of soul, of course. And a lot of people say, like, psychedelia, or psychedelicness. I need to start writing notes, because everybody asks me this question, and every time they ask me, I'm like "uhhhh."

Sanni Brown 

If you guys were a box of cereal, how would you describe the taste?

Inayah 

Oh my gosh, that's such a good question. I think probably like, oh! Like Apple Jacks. Yes!

Sanni Brown 

There you go. Why Apple Jacks?

Inayah 

Because it has, like that fruity (laughs), but then the cinnamon with the spice.

Sanni Brown 

Okay, that's what I was gonna say. You got a little tang tang, I see! See, when I bring it to food (laughs). Well, Inayah, thank you so much for coming in, and for performing on February 14, Valentine's Day with LASALLE, with Vinny Franco and the Love Channel at Zhora Darling. February 16, SoulFlower and Xina opening for Dua Saleh at Fine Line and February 26 headlining at Icehouse with GR3G, LASALLE, and ChocVillah. Where can we find out about you?

Inayah 

You can find us on Instagram, @soulflower_music. You can find us on Facebook. You can also find our email list, through social media, or if you come to a show, I will just send it to you. And if you sign up for our email list, you'll get emails about all our shows and upcoming things.

Sanni Brown 

And hopefully next time we'll be able to get the whole band in. Hopefully no teeth issues. Tell that brother my heart is with him (laughs). Thank you, Inayah.

Inayah 

Thank you.

Sanni Brown 

We're gonna get back to the music. You are in Music Class on The Message on Carbon Sound Music for Life.